Alex - RE: http://commforums.com/showthread.php?t=879 (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843641)

I would like the moderators to help me keep this thread clean, and for the sake of this game not dieing completely. Please no flames or stealing the thread.

Lets compile a list from the community and post it into 1 big thread, then see how we can balance our thread out even more. At the end of the thread when everyone has posted appropriately, we can submit it to this guy here as "The communityl4d voice" rather than a bunch of idiot pub stars posting on the steam forum. Help him find out what the REAL competition wants.

I'm going to reserve a post under this one that will house the entire change list when it's complete.

(@ Alex: hit me up on steam when you read this.)

Post reserved

No meds, advanced difficulty. Done.

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up)

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up)


Same list for me.

If we go the way of Advance difficulty, then i am for the no more then 2 hunters, but if we stay at normal, then i cant justify it as its kinda must against good survivors on certian levels.

if you don't have more than 2 hunters then you need 2 smokers or else people will always play the same class unless they die at exactly the same time. maybe my logic is flawed by but every 20 seconds you will always get the same thing :/. Otherwise boomers would be able to spawn way to soon.

You have been banned for the following reason:
Insulted Other Member(s)
Date the ban will be lifted: Never

You have been banned for the following reason:
Insulted Other Member(s)
Date the ban will be lifted: Never


?????? What sir are you rambling about?

I guess he got banned from the STEAM forums. LOL

Only 2 Hunters? My good sir what are you smoking? I don't care what is changed/lifted/nerfed... only two hunters is bad, bad, bad...

That's not hard to do. Do any more than make basic suggestions or sucking a mod's/dev's left nut, such as make a nice civil logical argument albeit against the mods/devs, and you get banned.

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up)

Going to have to agree with this list except the last part. Definitely no 4 hunters though. 3 hunts/1 smoke max. No med-kits out of safe room, and health feeds through each campaign. So if you're struggling into the end you're forced to heal at the start ext. or hold onto what you have. Weapons/pipes/molo don't move over, but pills should.

no Tank placement, the moment the tank gets avail the player should get control of it. Instead of placing it at a certain point and auto attack with pc for a few seconds let it activate sooner and let the "you're about to become tank, when survivors get X amount of yards" along with "you're too far from survivors" top right as well..so its not in the middle of the screen.

Obviously the finale tank would just immediately spawn you as tank.

Bring back flaming hunters, and let smokers get fire dmg.

Have an idea my self, throwing it out. Boomer bile decreaseing the spawn time of other infected[needs negative effects ext so compile if you think it's decent]

Edit: I donno if i'm getting the basic idea of this thread wrong, if i am just say something.

?????? What sir are you rambling about?

I guess he got banned from the STEAM forums. LOL

win.

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up)
+1

I understand why some people wouldn't like it, but I think it would make for more dynamic gameplay.

pills instead of kits, remove map difficulty multiplier

Replace medkits outside of spawn/finale with pills

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

Tweaked.

Added

Give points to infected that can add to final total for doing damage.

Scoring system needs to be changed so that 100 health gives 100 health bonus, and 4 medkits give 100 health bonus. It's ridiculous when a team limps in completely wrecked, some black and white, but they have 4 medkits and get 175, a score decent enough to stay close with a team that played the map flawlessly. A team that limps with 4 kits should get a little over 100 points, not 175. Also, I don't think pills should count towards score in any way; that way they would be used to stay alive instead of being used as another score booster.

If the score was fixed in that manner, and there were no random healthkit spawns, the game would be much more competitive and the scores would actually start to reflect performance. Right now, medkits completely interrupt the pace of the game. Find a medkit, the game pauses for 10 seconds so everyone can figure out who is going to heal, the lowest guy has to limp over to it, heal, and repeat when they find another one. No more of that. Pick up pills, pass them, eat them when you're in danger, and keep running for the saferoom. Use medkits only in an emergency.

Faster games, better scores, more skill, less drudgery.

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal)

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?)

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up)

nice

faster games is a huge part. i can't even begin to say how much fun i had at the evga tournament.

pills instead of kits, remove map difficulty multiplier

map difficulty maps winning a certain make all more crucial. because i can honestly say a map like BH4 is harder then the finale, however though, i'm contradicting myself there because BH1-3 are probably a little harder then BH4. so maybe nerfing that would be going in the right direction.

Scoring system needs to be changed so that 100 health gives 100 health bonus, and 4 medkits give 100 health bonus. It's ridiculous when a team limps in completely wrecked, some black and white, but they have 4 medkits and get 175, a score decent enough to stay close with a team that played the map flawlessly.

i couldn't agree more. at least bring it to 125-150.

edit: oh boy, 100th post.

Restricting the number of each infected class is a bad idea. Teams should be allowed to manage their spawns to get the set-up they want, if they want to waste 45 seconds setting up for 4 hunters, I say let them.

Map difficulty modifier could use some adjusting. Everyone here knows which maps are harder and worth less.

Infected scores don't need to be added to your team's score since that damage will be reflected by the opposing team's lower score once we get rid of medpacks.

There are only a circumstances in which the tank AI control will get you in a bad situation, all other times you should be able to mitigate the damage with your other special infected and prevent being lit on fire.

I could go along with rewarding survivors for getting farther in the finale. Say 50% distance traveled for starting the event, 7% for each horde wave, 11% for each tank.

So, like I said before, no medpacks, advanced difficulty, done.

So many opinions on how this game should be played... I really wonder which ones are going to come out and be agreed with on top of everyone else's.

Guess we'll just have to see, huh?

So, like I said before, no medpacks, advanced difficulty, done.

Well if we're speaking for the general mass of L4D players I completely disagree, but if we're speaking for people with a little more experience with organized play, I would disagree advanced difficulty and medpacks TOGETHER one, or the other is just fine (but I wouldn't prefer it. I generally like things the way they are).

Can't we just make a mod (Like CAL mod) and just force that kind of stuff in competitive play? Does it necessarily HAVE to be implemented in all of Left 4 Dead? I think that's kinda why we're hoping for the SDK to come out soon, am I right?

Yes, but right now, at the moment I'm pretty sure all of the changes we want can easily be added to the game just by changing console commands like CAL does. If you didn't notice the entire 'PRO MODE' is just a config of a bunch of different console commands.

The boomer, upon explosion, should have like 20 mini hunters burst out of it that can only claw people. Its the only obvious thing being missed here.

The boomer, upon explosion, should have like 20 mini hunters burst out of it that can only claw people. Its the only obvious thing being missed here.

Genius.

The boomer, upon explosion, should have like 20 mini hunters burst out of it that can only claw people. Its the only obvious thing being missed here

havent lol'd all day, thank you sir i needed that

No Medkits outside of spawn/finale - Pretty much doing a pill_conversion_rate 0. Exception to this rule I think should be placed on certain places. Like NM3, the ALWAYS med kit in the ambulance should stay (just that one). And in other levels where a medkit will always spawn 100% of the time. (i'm not sure if DT church level has one in the ambulance, but that sort of thing).

Remove Map Difficulty Multiplier - Agreed

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal) - Oh yes mos def. agreed. Possibly make the Map distance move with the progression of the level (once u call the radio, you can increment by each horde that comes, then the tank, more horde, and then after defeating the second tank, that should complete a 100% distance).

No Re-spawn for Infected at the beginning of the round (what is the point of this?) - Umm... someone care to explain to me what this is? Not sure what you guys mean by this :S

No more than 2 Hunters at a time (this is something many people won't agree with. However, I don't like the common and boring strategy of kill the Boomer, get set up) - I would say no more than 3 hunters at a time. I think 3-1's are needed ... but 4 hunters i think is just stupid. So i think only 3 hunters max.



no Tank placement - I disagree. I think with teams having the lead, starting as survivors first will sorta balance this out. So I'm fine with tank/witch placement.

Obviously the finale tank would just immediately spawn you as tank. - I like the fact that you get some warning before you spawn as a tank (on normal levels) because if you're in spawn mode, it gives you time to quickly run around a corner and spawn ur infected before becoming the tank. In the finale though, there is no spawn placement with infecteds. You simply spawn. So I definitely agree that during finales, Players should spawn as tanks immediately to avoid the AI tank getting burned even before a player has taken over (this is just stupid). So good point Omerta... agreed!

Bring back flaming hunters, and let smokers get fire dmg. - AGREED Whole-heartedly on both.

Give points to infected that can add to final total for doing damage. - I don't really see a need for this if there aren't going to be extra healthpacks along the map. So I disagree to this.

To Jerk... the scoring system I think needs a lil' work as well. They once again need to fix it so that the score updates itself when someone heals a teammate or if someone was hanging off a ledge. The one thing I'd like to see though which might sound stupid to some... is to make health packs GIVE YOU 50% of ur life back (and not 80%). This way when you have ppl all limping (and black and white) getting into the saferoom with healthpacks on hand... the most the team can get is 100 health bonus (25% each). Which will really make a difference when you have a team that finished with 30-40 hp and all health packs, that will have about a 140+ bonus. It will create a bit more of a gap IMO.


Oh and if we're dropping Med kits and going with only pills... advanced is a verrrry bad idea lol... survivors will get destroyed!

Can't we just make a mod (Like CAL mod) and just force that kind of stuff in competitive play? Does it necessarily HAVE to be implemented in all of Left 4 Dead? I think that's kinda why we're hoping for the SDK to come out soon, am I right?

Yes.... good point Vis. We should be able to modify the game to our liking and therefore not ruining pub play.

Reward Survivors for lasting in the finale (at the moment, it's an all or nothing kind of deal) - Oh yes mos def. agreed. Possibly make the Map distance move with the progression of the level (once u call the radio, you can increment by each horde that comes, then the tank, more horde, and then after defeating the second tank, that should complete a 100% distance)

shouldnt be 100% until they make it to the escape vehicle.

How many times have you stopped survivors on BH5 with the 3rd tank??

This thread has re awoken my hopes of this community not being a drama fest..Also what i mean by placement is the same thing as the finale. There is so many times i spawn as tank in basic levels to be on fire directly.

Also, BALANCE OUT ALL SPAWNS. IF 1 TEAM GETS A MOLOTOV BEFORE TANK THEN THE OTHER SHOULD INDEFINITELY NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT.

The idea of replacing in game medpacks can be replaced with 2 Molotovs and 2 pipes at the start of each level like dead air 1. That way conserving pipes/mollys would be alot more probable then conserveing medkits. Where each pipe would be dire, and each molotov would be saved for a tank. Instead of teams bitching about not getting a Molotov for there tank and the other did.

I agree completely on pills not counting toward any total health since they are TEMPORARY shoulden't be rocket science to not let them count toward HP scores.

Also, if teams activate car alarms it should cut or instantly spawn infected that have recently died. They don't do enough as they should and are not a big enough hazard. Witches are not a big enough obstacle if one survivor goes down it should go after another. That or she should get aggravated a whole lot faster. Shooting around her should get her angry along with any flashlight shit. If none of this can be applied at least make the which on "expert" difficulty. Instantly killing the survivor instead of incapping him.

Maps 4 and 5 of each campaign should not start with teir 2 weapons. Both should be found at an X part of the level making the "difficulty" of said level some what respective to it. Teir 2 should be found at the crescendo event only and picking up a "new" weapon should not reload it if you had it previously.

shouldnt be 100% until they make it to the escape vehicle.

How many times have you stopped survivors on BH5 with the 3rd tank??

ehh.. QFT!

Just trying to help! GEEZ

? If u were referring to me, Night... I was agreeing with u.. :tongue:.. I think it should be 100% distance getting to the vehicle.

well remove this one from our list

Fixed a case where infected players would get a respawn time on their initial spawn into a map