Hey guys.. I'm one of the brazillian guys that used to participate on those mumble parties (wand never invited me anymore.. are they over?).

So.. the brazillian league is about to begin and my team will face a team with an excelent sniper on cp_follower..

I want to know what are the best ways to make the other sniper less effective and force him to go scout. Because I think our scouts are better than theirs.

Oh.. and.. if not asking too much, can anyone give us some tatics on cp_follower? We are kind of lost on this map, because we don't play it quite often here and I can't find any demos on it.(gotfrag's are outdated and europeans seems to don't play it at all)
Or some demoman(my class) tips at least ; )

Sorry about my grammar, my english isn't perfect.

thanks.

One thing that you can try to do is have your scouts focus on the demo, should be easier when only going against another scout; plus if you get one scout down you have a flank advantage. If you shut the other teams demo down it might make him go back to scout. Another thing you can do is have your scouts harass the sniper, depending on how close to the combo he is playing.

Take your combo through the house at mid, jump soldiers from the middle door to their train. With them having 1 scout and you having better scouts, there's no way that the demo should be able to sticky this off (really the only counter). With your soldiers on top of the enemy combo and your medic able to move to point with the train to cover him from the sniper, he should have a minimal impact on the mid fight. The only really important thing here is that your scouts/demo don't fall back to the left side of mid - they need to stay on point or move to the right to support the soldiers (you're basically giving up access to the left health in favor of resolving the mid more quickly and at closer range).

You can skip sniper problems in yard by going left or dropdown, though those options expose you more to sticky traps. As for last, it's just like granary. Pop uber when you have to and get up in his face so he can't do anything.

Defending your yard/last - just keep your medic in a position he can't be seen and stay close to the doors. If you keep your spam up you shouldn't lose anyone to the sniper, so when the push opens up, you'll have an advantage on the flank.

Also, don't play scared. Play safe, but not scared. Even the best snipers in the game miss more than like half of the time. Too often I see a team get a few people headshot in mid one round, and then in subsequent rounds they are so scared to even walk outside. They just give up massive amounts of ground for free while they just run from the sniper. I've watched games of teams going against a Sniper that was bottom fragging and yet carrying at the same time. Teams let the presence of a sniper alone lose them mid - he doesn't even have to hit a single shot.

I'm not saying that you should, as a Medic, just run in front of him and start taunting. Clearly you want to be staying behind cover and not moving out until the coast is clear. But at SOME point the rest of your team is going to have to expose themselves to potentially getting shot by the sniper, if they don't how are you ever going to win? Like Sigma said, go through alternate routes, abuse the fact that you have either +1 scout or +1 soldier on the enemy and just overpower them, play more aggressive etc.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Any tips on attacking the last point?

I think the main problem on my team is that we suck at attacing their last point.. we do great in mid fights.. we get the second point and then.. we suck.

Most of the time we have to try like 2-3 and even four times to get their last point, and sometimes they advance so much that when we realize, they are at OUR last point.

Any tips? yeah, I don't want to create another thread..

Thanks ; )

The nice thing about follower last is, like granary, the 4th point has a lot of potential traps you can use to defend it, and your spawn is close to the 4th point. If you're at even ubers or behind, you can often generate an advantage by suiciding both of your soldiers on the enemy medic while keeping the rest of your team alive. A double soldier jump has a good chance of killing or forcing a pop if they don't have a heavy or sentry, and it's pretty easy to defend 4 (or at least re-cap) after losing both soldiers (unless they fail to do anything to the medic), thanks to the close spawn.

Once you have an advantage, just push your medic+pocket+demo in the right door with roamer+scouts left/top, preferably ubering only the pocket so your medic has time to run up top, and end your uber with both soldiers and medic on the bridge (if you haven't already fragged enough to cap).

Just a general thing with last points: I see this a TON with lower level teams attacking Badlands last. Everyone will be up in second floor lobby. They have uber, the other team has uber. THen they finally get around to pushing, and then suddenly they all barrel through the tiny doorway to top left with their Medic, both Soldiers, and their Demoman all at the same time. Everyone takes a TON of damage, maybe even some people die before the uber goes off, and by the time the uber does go off the Medic is forced to split it like 3 ways just to keep everyone from dying.

Please, stop making four person pushes through a tiny chokepoint all at once when you know the enemy has uber. Send in the medic and ONE other person through top left and get the combo to pop with that. Everyone else can go alternate routes, attack from multiple directions.

Also, whenever the enemy DOES pop, don't just get into a staring match with them. Again, I see so many teams if they do push in with just their combo on top left, they will get the enemy combo to pop... and then they will just sorta sit there, ubered, staring at the other ubered combo. What is this gaining? Once they pop, _do something else._ You are effectively just wasting your uber as you get in a staring match with them. Go find some unubered enemies and kill them. Fall down to bottom and then rotate to top right. Make better use of your ubercharges instead of just sitting around staring at the combo.

Grieve makes a good point about how to have good pushes, and answers some of the "why?" behind the push I described. Moving in with just your pocket ubered then taking the high ground post uber is much much better than flashing 2-3 people in right side, running out of uber halfway to the point, and having to back up to the same door.

This is getting off topic, but I would like to add to what Grieve posted regarding uber use. Any time you uber and have to flash people, you should consider if that flash is really worth it or if it could be avoided. Are you accomplishing anything worth the uber time?

If the goal of your uber is to force the enemy medic, you can do that best+retreat with 1 soldier. If you send 2, you get into an awkward position where you have not much charge left+they just popped+you have 2 sollies that need to get away from their combo.

Carefully thought-out flashes on a push are a good thing. For example, pushing granary 4 when the enemy does not have charge, it can be a good idea to uber a scout across point and have that scout engage an enemy scout/demoman to make it easier for your roamer+other scout to come in garage, then use the rest of your uber on your pocket to force their combo back up. Another example would be pushing badlands last - uber your pocket in top left, then, once you've forced the combo to pop (or into spawn), drop down and flash your roamer from bottom middle so he can get up in the demo's face with 300hp.

Defensive ubers should be planned similarly. Imagine you're defending blands 3, uber vs uber, your scouts are down and they're pushing from corner. You don't want to back up and get trapped in house, your scouts will be back for post-uber mop up so you can hold mid if you win the uber fight. If you have all of your heavy classes spam the corner, you'll succeed in making them pop early but you'll also have a bunch of heavy classes right next to their uber. Additionally, keeping your medic at their train will make you easy to force. So rather than that, try putting your roamer on their train, your demo on point, and your combo on your train. Your roamer and demo spam the crap out of the corner to try to force a pop. Once they commit, your roamer can jump back to your balcony, and get health, and your demo can run back to your train. At this time, you should rush your combo into theirs, such that:
1) if they ubered on corner, you get right up on their medic post uber
2) if they didn't uber on corner, you can engage close range to force the pop, and hopefully force them to split... or at worst, you have a good chance of saving mid because they can't bring people towards your combo, their uber has nothing to kill, and your scouts will be in shortly.

One last thing I would like to mention is that if you have a flow to your movement during the uber rather than a rigid in-out, you get a lot more done. Ubering in blands last top left, then retreating through bottom middle allows you to go a bit further in before needing to ditch. You can commit pretty far into yard with your combo if you pop on corner then retreat through house (must watch house with roamer) rather than popping on corner then retreating back to corner. Basically, what Grieve said about not getting into a staring match.