Hello! I'm very interested in getting some comp player feedback for my new map, cp_frost. Let me know what you think!

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/121295

cp_frost is a 5cp push map geared towards competitive play. It emphasizes vast height differences, flank routes, and long sight lines. The middle is based somewhat loosely off the B bombsite in de nuke from counterstrike source, while the rest of the map draws a bit from yukon, well, and other maps. One of the prominent features of the map are the scattered attic areas, which offer players a variety of height based options as well as unique sniping positions.

The final points are from my entry to the control point detailing contest at tf2maps.net.

As far as testing goes, I'm interested in how viable the sniping positions are. Are they too good? Can you snipe too well from such a vantage? I'm also interested in how back cappable the map is. Does the map offer too many side routes or flanks which make it so scouts can continually backcap?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a1_01.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a3_6.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a3_5.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_a3_4.jpg

So I played this with bots for a few hours and have a few comments/suggestions. Keep in mind with this that I played only soldier and medic with the bots so its from this perspective.

The race to mid initially seems very slow but after a bit i was starting to be able to get a solly there by 9:38ish. The path there would flow better (for gameplay as well I think, but it would have to be play tested i think) that coming from 2 to 3 the wall leading to the far right entrance to mid to removed so you can go stright there rather then go around the wall (that currently leads to the center entrance) so that you would have a choice to get to the right or middle faster... (ill maybe get a screeny later if im not lazy). As far as the mid fight goes i would say the med packs are in a very hard place. If they were put up next to the crates (and maybe a small one in the bottom center and remove the railings).. that would be the crates in the bottom left of teh picture for blues pack (the ones not actually in the picture).

The whole overhead needs to be reworked I think. There is very limited access (2 ways in, 4 out... 2 of the 4 out directly to the point). I think having direct access from 2 would help that. Also dealing with up tops... the overhead on 2 seems to closed. I think if it was more open to access and sightlines it would help as well. The bridge covering on the point itself i think should have some drop down access similar to yukons 2 point and fastlanes mid point, or some variation of that.

I would also consider maybe shortening the second point... so its like this right now:
---S--
|-----|
|****|
|-CP--|
|*||*|
|****|
|-----|
mid
so what I think might be worth trying be something like this:
---S--
|-CP--|
|*||*|
|****|
|-----|
mid

that would help with cover from the 2 to 1 side maybe...

right now when bots run it (ya i know not the best thing but w/e) they build SG's on right at the doors of 2 to 1 but can get spammed from halfway into the point...

I dont really have much more about 2 or 1.. the bots arnt very smart and didnt do a whole lot for those points. One thing about point 1 though is that coming out of spawn on both 1's the left ladder/ramp thing doesnt work right... the clicking is messed up or seomthing. Also the capping trigger should be smaller for 1... right now it covers the whole platform. I would suggest only the grate outline for size.

Hope this helps. Alot of the side routes and stuff I didnt really make use of, but agian keep in mind i didnt play demo or scout or sniper any... the sightlines on mid seems pretty clogged on mid too.. but really wanst paying a huge amount of attention to them. I do like the layout overall so it looks good imo so far.

Thanks for the feedback man! I know the bots aren't optimal, but some of your suggestions are useful, and I'll be keeping them in mind.

1) The rush to mid might seem a bit slow, but the walls near the second point give you double rocket jump capacity, which means you can get some pretty sick speed off the second jump. I've put a medium health pack at the ramp up towards middle from the lower area as well, so you can resupply before choosing right or left to assault.

2) I think your right about the health pack below, I'll probably put the medium up top and put a smal health down below. I'm not sure if I want to put the med ammo near the small or medium health, though I think I want it somewhere up top. We'll see about that.

3) I'm not sure about the upper area of the middle. I think it offers a pretty good scout flank route, especially if you go all the way around and try to pick a medic, or a spy going for the same etc. I think a roamer might be able to use it as a last ditch defense, trying to get some kills before the middle is capped or such. I'll think about connecting it to 2nd (it does kind of line up with something that might make for an interesting alternative pathway). I'm kinda mixed on the upper area at 2 right now. I used to have a ton of windows so people could see approaching attackers/defenders, but I was told that it wasn't so good for flanking, so I removed it. I might put some visibility back, albeit a little more restrained, though I think I'll avoid any real openings for firing in or out (or maybe not, all depends on how things go I guess).

4) I've added some new walls in the version I'm working on for the 2nd point. They block up line of sight, giving engies a safe spot to build on the point, albeit one that can get shelled from the far right hallway, so defenders get a little bit of a boost at 2nd.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

FPS banana page: http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/126653
Direct Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b4.bsp

Sorry for the long delay. B4 is out now. I've made some pretty significant
changes from the original alpha I put up here, so I'll just go ahead and put some screenshots. Let me know what you guys think!

I've run some pug tests and it seems to play very well. The mid is (at this point) a bit of a weak link, but the latest version should have fixed some of the issues with it (including meds falling to the lower area and getting worked by rockets.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b4_1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b4_4.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b4_3.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b4_5.jpg

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/126653

B5 is out. Thanks to the TF2F pug group for a really helpful playtest! And thanks as well to my regular playtest budsisos.

Changes from B4:

* Turned the platform off of attic sideways, blocking LOS to the point and keeping the fire range to only one entrance. If you want to fire on the point, you need to keep inside the attic.
* Added a stack of boxes so scouts can get to the attic. Requires a couple of double jumps, but you can be concealed for a bit of it.
* Removed handrails from stairs to basement.
* Added a new primary entrance to basement from second. The ramp up from the lower area at second is gone, but the hall now leads directly to the medium underneath the point. Some of the pipes in the hall can be jumped on for scouts to get back up top.
* Made the see through metal on the second point into a regular metal texture. Should help with sticky traps, and general combat surprise from above (though it wasn't really that useful for spotting people above you anyway).
* Added a bunch of props to the lower area at second. Car in snow inspiration from coldfront!
* Clipped significant portions of the map to faciliate smoother movement. Still some areas to clip, I'll be on the lookout for problem areas.
* Raised the circle surrounding the rocket by 32 units or so. I found that combat at last tended to revolve entirely around the point itself, which is fine, but I wanted to give defenders a little more leeway in wandering the area in front of the point. This also breaks up some sentry sight lines from below the stairs, and breaks up sight lines in general, giving sneaky spies a chance to uncloak in certain places. The movement up or down from the circle might be a bit irritating so I'll be looking to perhaps move the displacement up a bit to help people get onto the circle.
* Removed a brush from blue spawn that blocked soldier rocket jumps at the beginning of the round. Forgot to remove the one at red, will remember to do that for the next version.
* Made the spytech beams above the last point non-physical, to aid rocket jumps.

Todo list:

I'm going to reworking the upper area above the last point, where the windows are right now. I plan to open up the center area, and put the entrances to the upper area in the two adjoining rooms. This will require opening up the storage room overlooking 2nd, and alterations to a great deal of geometry, so I've been putting it off.

ok, I havent played it with other people (and I play medic so no idea on jumps and stuff) but damn this map is gorgeous. my crappy computer doesnt do it justice, so I ran it on a friends beast of a computer. It looks like fun, something I really want to play in preseason.

I'll put it on my server if there's no dev/orange textures still. I don't mind it but the majority of people I play with would whine.

I'll put it on my server if there's no dev/orange textures still. I don't mind it but the majority of people I play with would whine.

Dev textures are completely gone! The whole map is fully textured and detailed, barring whatever changes I make in the future and the eventual inclusion of a rather limited skybox.

Dropbox Link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3492731/cp_frost_b6
FPS Banana: http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/121295

Woop, B6. Lot of quick little changes, and a rather large alteration to the top at last. We'll see how the new overlook works out (bit worried about rocket jumps onto the platform, it seems a bit hard unless you do it just right).

Changes from B5:

* Adjusted the spawn times and cap times of the middle three points. They were significantly lower than both granary and well, so I put them back to roughly that same level (capping middle nets you 3 spawn advantage, capping 2nd nets you 2; both middle and 2nd cap require 1 point longer to capture, hopefully helping with the back capping issue).
* Put a collection of crates downstairs to block up movement around the medium health. The basement is now much more of a one way path with two stair exits, as opposed to a rather circular area it was before. Should stop scouts from running rings around anyone who tries to chase them down there.
* Moved a small ammo further down the hallway near second. Moved the medium ammo at second away from the small health (hopefully, people needing health will grab it instead of it and the ammo). Also, added a small ammo to the snow area in front of second.
* Made the forward spawns at middle a bit larger and put the spawn points facing towards the next cap point. Should alleviate confusion regarding "where do I go next?"
* Replaced the trap door from second with a prop. The prop is a bit higher, so you should be able to slide through onto the second point much easier. Added some open spots on the roof at second, allowing for some (limited) shots to be fired at the point. Watch out that you don't splash damage yourself.
* Changed the layout of the attic area between second and last. Added two hallways leading to the balcony area at last, and moved the open section of that area to the middle instead. Also. opened up the crate room overlooking second, and moved the medium ammo around.
* Removed the middle stairs leading up and out of the last point. Replaced it with a series of boxes and a rather large ledge, for the attackers to get a bit of spam positioning. Might be a bit much, but I wanted the battle at last to be less of a wait and grind.
* Moved some boxes/barrels around at last. Clipped some exploitable spots.

FPSB has A3 and I got a 404 on the Dropbox link.

FPSB has A3 and I got a 404 on the Dropbox link.

Huh thats weird. I have a fpsbanana page for the betas thats different from the alpha, so check this link: http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/126653