Has anyone else gotten to play this map? What do you think of it?

I spent an hour playing this map on some random pub servers, and I've got to say that I like it a lot. It gets a lot of things right and doesn't suffer from many of the issues that plague most A/D maps. There aren't any horribly narrow chokes, there are plenty of different routes to take, and there are nice open spaces (especially around the control points, which is where openness is especially important). There are intermediate yard areas that the defending team can try to hold, rather than simply playing around the control point, and there's also a vertical component to the map that makes it fun for projectile classes. All around it seems like a very solid map.

I'm curious as to how this map might fare in 6v6. One of the things I noticed in pubs was that the defending team would usually try to push up as far as possible and hold one of the yard areas rather than simply hole up by their control point. This worked quite well for games with more than 16 players, since any lone scout that wandered onto the point to backcap would probably be picked off by a single player walking from spawn, allowing the defending team to hold the yard rather than turtle. However, I'm not sure if the same would be true in a 6v6 game. Due to risk of backcaps, teams might have to play around the control point. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as both control points are still quite fun to play on.

I spent most of my time playing it last night on a 32 man server *shiver*, but it was definitely real fun and like you I'm excited about the possibilities of it. We all love Gravel Pit, cuz it's undeniably a classic, but the A+B -> C structure leads to A being ignored. It doesn't even matter if they ever did improve upon A, teams would still be forced to pick one point. Limiting it to just an A point and a B point helps streamline the whole process while keeping the spirit of Gravel Pit defending.

I like the side to side action too, it seems like theres a lot of space, even on a packed server. In regards to 6v6 and back-capping, I don't think back-capping scouts will be much of an issue, but team's will certainly need a dynamic defense.

Without a doubt, offensive engie has a big role on this map in Pub servers. I wonder if a forward tele would be beneficial enough in 6v6 to justify engie. Prolly not....

I ran through this map in my Local Server and I can't pick up any outstanding flaws.

I say that we give it a shot next season, and in the meantime we can pug on it. :biggrin:

I wonder if a forward tele would be beneficial enough in 6v6 to justify engie. Prolly not....
A forward teleporter on offense is only necessary if you fail repeated attempts to push. I think your sixth slot would be better spent on a scout or someone to help with the push than taking the defeatist stance of preparing for a failed push. In pub servers, you don't have to worry about failing a few attempts as long as you're able to take the point within the time limit, but stopwatch changes all that.

With regard to backcaps, it looks like Gorge uses the same capture times as Gravelpit, which are quite forgiving, making it safe(r) for teams to play away from the point, as long as they don't allow both scouts to get past.

Played a few rounds in a pug. A forward spawn would be a good addition in my opinion. We didn't really figure out the map, but I imagine more experience on it would only help the defense.

I'm not really sure how much defense A is worth. We started out defending the first yard, then on the second round defended from the point area. Both of these ended with us retreating to B at a huge disadvantage and holding the first push only through luck. It might be best to defend all the ground available, but give it up easily/just do spam until fighting for the point. Though, perhaps I think this would be effective not because of the map, but because the pug was playing with the new rocket launchers and spam/peeking was doing a lot more than normal.

I like this map, and think it'd be really interesting in comp play... especially since it seems like the type of map you might want to drop a Soldier to play Engi on defense rather than a Scout with all the open ground and flanking possibilities. Plus, a Sniper seems like it'd be rather useful on the map (on both attack and defense), so leaving your Scouts open for utility classes rather than stuck Engineering will be key.

(A) seems like a fine place to buy lots of initial time. The building in front of the point seems like the best place to hold and group up. Falling back to the building behind (A) early when the attackers have a good push will be a key factor in defending (B). (B) has lots of nice high ground, and again is a good point to buy lots of time.

I'd be excited to see this map played in a scrim or pug. There seems to be lots of room for interesting and diverse strats on the map, which IMO is key to keeping comp play fresh.

I'm a huge fan of this map and have been running it on my server a lot. Lot's of great flanking positions for ambushing classes to make use of. I hope to play in a scrim or pug on it soon. Thanks Valve :D

I think a good strategy (somewhat like Gravelpit) for A point would be to make a sentry, have the opposing team Uber into it, then once they are all capping push back into them with Kritz. If you Kritz the Demoman out of the right side he can lob a sticky over the boxes (which give him cover) and should make it onto the point without even needing to be charged up. Otherwise, if the Kritz goes to the Soldier, it might be advantageous to go more left so you have LOS to the point.

Point A is very hard to defend by staying there and defending, but I think counterpushes would be highly effective because of the long cap time, the fact that it's on a bridge (i.e if you go left or right you fall off, meaning you all have to huddle on the point to an extent.

The first yard is difficult to defend because of the lack of any extended chokes for the BLU team, so I think the best plan there would to be to have the Demoman stick with the Combo on the back balcony, while the roaming soldier takes up a high position halfway up the yard on the house and the scout(s) watch the right side while the engineer sets up a bit back in the Yard/A connector.

A possible place (http://img689.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cpgorge0000.jpg) for a (temportary) sentry would be under the Stairs to the right (defensive perspective) in the main Hallway of the Yard/A connector, however I'm probably very wrong about this. I think building a reverse teleporter could sort of work (building the exit behind you while you first deploy) with the entrance at your temp sentry and the exit at the second sentry spot (possible spot? (http://img46.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cpgorge0002.jpg)).

Anyhow, that's all I can come up with, disregard me if I'm wrong since I probably am (haven't actually played the map 6v6 yet).

- Grimm

it pretty much takes the best of dustbowl and gravelpit and puts them together: 2 point a/d map, wide open spaces, a lot of flanks, but unlike dustbowl, you can't cap the points in 3 seconds or so, therefore more easily defended like gravelpit.

no height means no airshots though =/

My first impressions are that this map would do quite nicely on stopwatch play, but I spent half my time wandering around B totally confused, so I really can't say for sure xD

This map could work from my experience, I was going to PuG on it a bit over the next couple of weeks

Bumping for gorge update. Has anyone tried a pug on the updated gorge?

Not yet. I was going to make a lobby on it tomorrow and see if anyone shows..

I played a PUG on the updated version, it's pretty fun. I don't think it'll reach the point Gravelpit's at though with regards to being a classic there are a few things it does wrong on its last point.

yeah, from what I've seen, the last point boils down to RED holding BLU at the chokes from the first point, RED and BLU in an all out spamfest at the chokes around the point, or BLU rolling through. And those spamfests are no fun.
I also really don't like the depressed area. In gpit, when you defend last, you gain a height advantage. On gorge, when you defend last, you gain a huge disadvantage. I wouldn't mind that so much if you could actually lock down all flanks, but it's pretty tough to do that when you're limited to one demo.