What's up?

The map that introduced TF2 to dual-payload... now as a cp map.
I feel like this map is pretty standard. No spire to speak of.
Mid fight feels a little weird to me, but otherwise pretty normal map.

What works?
What doesn't?

It's TWL Week 2 (This week's map).

From what I have experienced so far playing on this map, a solid sniper on three can do wonders for getting a pick off the enemy and forcing them back. otherwise, relatively standard, the sewer valley I honestly see limited use out of other then hiding and waiting for a team to pass by, so you may want to keep a scout watching the sewers.

Okay I seriously need SOME sort of strategy for pushing into 4th point. As far as I can tell, the only viable strategy is getting them to push, and then beating them using the height advantage.

From what I have experienced so far playing on this map, a solid sniper on three can do wonders for getting a pick off the enemy and forcing them back. otherwise, relatively standard, the sewer valley I honestly see limited use out of other then hiding and waiting for a team to pass by, so you may want to keep a scout watching the sewers.

I've actually experienced the opposite. Mid seems to favor the team that plays more aggressively, so jumping one or both soldiers as soon as you see the sniper pretty much makes him unable to do anything unless he gets a really nice shot in his first 1-2 attempts. Though, if your scout can hold his own and you can take an advantage spamming their combo, the sniper is great for punishing teams for not retreating quickly enough (or in general, not playing aggressively enough).

Okay I seriously need SOME sort of strategy for pushing into 4th point. As far as I can tell, the only viable strategy is getting them to push, and then beating them using the height advantage.

The 4th point of waste is the hardest point to attack of all the "popular" maps, in my opinion. It seems that you basically have to suck it up and get your combo to the second floor somehow to draw focus away from the doors, then outfrag them in the base. The only way this seems to work is by putting all the heals on the pocket with the roamer + demo spamming from behind, rushing in the left side and trying to pop as late as possible (which is still really early) while forcing their uber asap, then hopefully taking a good enough position in the turbine room that your combo + roamer + demo are all still alive after the uber. It's probably better to have your roamer/demo follow close (scouts waiting until after the ubers go down), then let the roamer/pocket jump to safety in the turbine room and try to save your demo with the rest of the uber against their charge... but if you don't force them soon enough, that's an easy 4 kills for them. I don't really like playing it conservative and leaving the option of retreating outside the base, because that significantly reduces the chances of the push working (you'll just always be backing out against their uber that way). Running by their combo to the far stairs seems to give a good chance of capping the point, but also a high risk of wiping.

You could also try using the right door, though it's easy for the enemy demo to get a pick or force your uber with a trap while you're in no position to attack their combo. If you can keep track of where the demoman has his stickies, though, and you know right is clear, you can move in fast on that side and either cut left to the turbine room or go to point (probably have to pop by now) and jump your sollies to the second level to force a charge, then attempt to get your medic, scouts, and anyone who lived through the enemy uber to the second floor to frag it out. Having a scout with bonk to figure out the trap position could be handy here.

Another option would be to use a sniper and try to get a pick, the use the threat of a headshot to make the doors less spammy on your push. Once you show a sniper, though, it'll be difficult to hit anything; while that means the doors will be less spammed, you also don't have 2 scouts for the aftermath of the ubers (very important).

I've also considered purposefully losing a few players to try to force a push out of the enemy, then getting enough frags in yard that you can cap. A spy could work here as well... just wait for him to do something, then push off of whatever advantage he manages to generate.

Getting a pick as sniper seems a lot less viable than getting a pick as spy. The doors in aren't exactly conducive to sniper use, and a spy should have plenty of time to get behind the enemy and get a pick on either the medic or demoman. Running dual spies here might actually be viable simply due to how stagnant things are; if both spies can get picks on heavies, they lose the ability to spam you and your combo can just rambo in.

i like the double spy idea, actually. not because i would know how effective it could be, but simply because two spies working together sounds awesome and reminds me of that one video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x--ImDvOVQw

but really though, i think that the best way to attack 4 is to come in high, splitting the uber among the demoman and pocket, with the scouts and roamer coming in on the opposite side (roamer preferably coming in high). i'm assuming the attack would be setup in the health pack room that is on the other side of the wall from the 4 room.