Link: http://left4dead.gameriot.com/blogs/I-thought-it-was-the-brakes/Lets-Talk-Map-Design

not going to register on that blog but BH1 is the best map hands down in its current state. If we could regulate health, NM3 and BH3 would be right up there. The other maps all have pretty obvious flaws which you pointed out.

I am interested to see where l4d goes with user made maps. I would like to see a 3 maps style. But the 'normal' maps would be a bit longer then nm3. With plenty of places to attack etc. Biggest problem is a lot of the maps in nm and bh can become a cake walk after certain spots.

Events aren't bad as long as there is not a easy camp spot. Like nm3, but if a tank spawned with the event....

BH1 is the best map because there is only 1 area where the survivors can feel completely "safe" and that's in the little house, and then it's still risky being in there for the tank. Other maps have plenty of areas where it's safe to sit around in, and way more healthkits. You get a max 2 maybe 3 on BH1, but it's rare even to get one.

L4D needs more maps like BH1 where survivors are under constant pressure from all angles.

BH1 is the best map because there is only 1 area where the survivors can feel completely "safe" and that's in the little house, and then it's still risky being in there for the tank. Other maps have plenty of areas where it's safe to sit around in, and way more healthkits. You get a max 2 maybe 3 on BH1, but it's rare even to get one.

L4D needs more maps like BH1 where survivors are under constant pressure from all angles.

The third map in Death Toll will be somewhat like this one... especially once they leave the train yard.

BH1 is the best.

While looking at NM 3 as a good map, i can't do that until med kits are dealt with. BH1 has 1 health spawn and thats it. you will get pills and a pack. I wish all maps were somewhat like this.

Original spawn and then in the health box. Nothing else except maybe a few pills outside of the box.

once sdk comes out it will bring l4d to a whole new level.

once sdk comes out it will bring l4d to a whole new level.

took to long imo

Ya it did take way too long :X

I hope you dont think the SDK is comming out april 21st.

I hope you dont think the SDK is comming out april 21st.

comes out after april 21st. ieeeeeeeeee: 3-1000000000000 weeks. sadly valve killed this game. Hopefully 2 new maps will help jump start interest, but i dunno

comes out after april 21st. ieeeeeeeeee: 3-1000000000000 weeks. sadly valve killed this game. Hopefully 2 new maps will help jump start interest, but i dunno


4 kits only is fun

4 kits only is fun

It will be so much fun with only 4 starting first-aid kits, but what if you get like 20 bottles of pills?

There obviously wouldn't be a need for first-aid kits, but the pills would just be another way to say "Super fast first-aid kits over here!"

comes out after april 21st. ieeeeeeeeee: 3-1000000000000 weeks. sadly valve killed this game. Hopefully 2 new maps will help jump start interest, but i dunno

It isn't just l4d - online gaming is in a slump for several obvious reasons, but being a new unproven game it's hurt us harder than the established games. Probably doesn't matter if they release it tomorrow or next month - either l4d will become a good competitive game or it'll die out and just be a pub game. Should know pretty soon after it's released.

It will be so much fun with only 4 starting first-aid kits, but what if you get like 20 bottles of pills?

There obviously wouldn't be a need for first-aid kits, but the pills would just be another way to say "Super fast first-aid kits over here!"

have you ever seen 20 health spawns? no. if your all bleeding out and find 8 pill bottles your still barely over a 100 bonus - besides you can reduce the total amount of pill spawns as well pre sdk, well testing it anyway.

have you ever seen 20 health spawns? no. if your all bleeding out and find 8 pill bottles your still barely over a 100 bonus - besides you can reduce the total amount of pill spawns as well pre sdk, well testing it anyway.

Yes... there are 20+ health spawns in maps 2 and 3. I'm talking first-aid kits and pills all together. Maybe not 20 total but there are 20+ spawns and that is sort of what I referring to.

As far as controlling the spawns, that should be easy. Once all the DLC stuff comes out, we'll be able to make mods where we can do this/that and I'm sure everything will be fine.

You guys just need to give this game more time to develop.

Yes... there are 20+ health spawns in maps 2 and 3. I'm talking first-aid kits and pills all together. Maybe not 20 total but there are 20+ spawns and that is sort of what I referring to.

As far as controlling the spawns, that should be easy. Once all the DLC stuff comes out, we'll be able to make mods where we can do this/that and I'm sure everything will be fine.

You guys just need to give this game more time to develop.

games had its time. Can't wait 6 months before it gets off the ground. DLC will revive it a little, but nothing like the 600 teams we had in CAL

games had its time. Can't wait 6 months before it gets off the ground. DLC will revive it a little, but nothing like the 600 teams we had in CAL

Nobody is asking you to float around, Alex. If you feel you're too good for this game or its broken or whatever silly excuse you want to throw, be on your way my good man.

the 600 teams in cal was more like 200 after they all died and FFL'd their way thru PS. And I've also never seen 20+ healthpacks/pills on the same map. 15 at the most. But regardless - we can tweak that number now, without changing the actual number of spawns. 4 original kits + 8 pills isnt bad.

the 600 teams in cal was more like 200 after they all died and FFL'd their way thru PS. And I've also never seen 20+ healthpacks/pills on the same map. 15 at the most. But regardless - we can tweak that number now, without changing the actual number of spawns. 4 original kits + 8 pills isnt bad.

Hmm... well I know for a fact that I've found 8 kits in No Mercy 3; not counting the original 4 that you grab.

So that's 12 plus 8 pills that I've seen, too...

Again, this is Left 4 Dead. Things like that happen.

Agreed, though. I love the idea of 4 kits; 8 pills.

But then there are finales. Are you fine with 8 kits on maps like finales? Or would you want 4 pill spawns on the table? Hahaha

Nobody is asking you to float around, Alex. If you feel you're too good for this game or its broken or whatever silly excuse you want to throw, be on your way my good man.

i love how whenever i say anything bad about the game you quickly run to it's defense. I don't think i have ever once said i was good at this game and i am the first to say we lost. Please get over yourself, all those youtube comments must be getting to your head. ello?

the 600 teams in cal was more like 200 after they all died and FFL'd their way thru PS. And I've also never seen 20+ healthpacks/pills on the same map. 15 at the most. But regardless - we can tweak that number now, without changing the actual number of spawns. 4 original kits + 8 pills isnt bad.

more like 200 matches played, which comes to around 400 teams. More than CoD4 season 1. ello xan i know you were there for that.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/exodus010/shot0065.jpg

i love how whenever i say anything bad about the game you quickly run to it's defense. I don't think i have ever once said i was good at this game and i am the first to say we lost. Please get over yourself, all those youtube comments must be getting to your head. ello?

What the hell does my youtube comments have to do with ANYTHING I just said, dude?

Looks like more people than I know are looking over my shoulder... kinda creepy, man.

Get over myself? Are you serious? I defend the game because I love the game and that is what every player that competes in this tournament is here for.

I see all this bashing and thrashing about how terrible this game is, how broke it is, blah blah blah... yet that's why everyone of you still come back to play it. QQ more or just get out right now while your head is hanging high.

Oh God... I keep forgetting who I'm talking to.

King Troll himself... be gone, creepy guy... :cool:

What the hell does my youtube comments have to do with ANYTHING I just said, dude?

Looks like more people than I know are looking over my shoulder... kinda creepy, man.

Get over myself? Are you serious? I defend the game because I love the game and that is what every player that competes in this tournament is here for.

I see all this bashing and thrashing about how terrible this game is, how broke it is, blah blah blah... yet that's why everyone of you still come back to play it. QQ more or just get out right now while your head is hanging high.

Oh God... I keep forgetting who I'm talking to.

King Troll himself... be gone, creepy guy... :cool:

First of all i really enjoy l4d, but pretending the problems in the game don't exist doesn't fix them. Sorry if i point them out alot.

i had to explain this to madyak, so ill do the same to you.

MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: could you troll the forums any more lol
Donnie Brasco: i don't troll
MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: i mean you HAVE to struggle to come up with some of the posts you make lol
Donnie Brasco: no i don't
Donnie Brasco: i don't troll
Donnie Brasco: ever
Donnie Brasco: i simply find flaws in logic
Donnie Brasco: point people out on them
MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: well true enough, you're not a technical troll, but that's not what i'm talking about
Donnie Brasco: or i make legit posts
Donnie Brasco: i trolled one day
Donnie Brasco: when i find the dancing blue dino pic
MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: i'm talking about when you post randomly (to up your post count i'm guessing?)
Donnie Brasco: i never do that
Donnie Brasco: thats the thing
Donnie Brasco: read all my posts
MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: maybe not for that purpose, but it seems like you can't resist posting in a thread :P
Donnie Brasco: i rarely post like cocks
Donnie Brasco: or diqs
MoB MollyDodgin'Yak: mostly true
Donnie Brasco: in my past
Donnie Brasco: 25 posts
Donnie Brasco: i have one, single word post
Donnie Brasco: the rest are all setences

Alex just... wow, man.

game's broked, alex wins

game's broked, alex wins

You can't spell.

You lose.

Valve killing their own games through poor business practice isn't a new concept. Sure, they have done great in terms of providing the backbone to make good games (Steam, the game engine, the concept of this mod), but when it comes to maintaining their games.. they simply suck. They release their games in a crippled state, and then they either take forever to fix key bugs (a problem with past games of theirs, but they've done fine with L4D), or they take forever with key content to keep the interest of its player base (they've obviously failed here with L4D).

There's 2 parts that most likely played into L4D having more competitive teams at the start than other games. First, it's a 4v4 game, and so it's easier than one may think for more teams to be formed compared to even a 5v5 game. Second, the game is of a fresh concept and doesn't have a direct substitute, such as games like the CoD and CS series. I'd say it's always better to gauge the growth/loss of the game at the end of the first season than simply looking at the initial numbers.

Though, while Valve played a big role in downsizing the game's potential, the lack of recognized league play has only further hindered said potential. CAL 'died' at an inopportune time, and neither TWL (is that the current league?) nor the infected cups really promote much competition. My guess is CEVO may begin soon, but really Valve is only crippling the game more and more the longer it waits to allow its player base to provide the game with some fresh content that Valve itself is heavily abysmal at best with doing.

cypher wins

well, i find it funny when people who start out in the competitive scene of a game at its earliest stages feel that a game is dying or dead. l4d will be around for years, we have 2 campaigns to play atm, a year from now thier should be enough competitive campaigns to never have to play bh or nm in leagues again. the competition will change, as players lose interest more will take thier place as they gain interest. Id say we have a pretty good base of competition here, and I can only see it vastly improving with the game being added to cevo, after the initial free tourney the league's first season will really carry this game.

edit: yes valve has hindered its growth so far, not arguing that at all.

I have to say that all though I agree that I would like to see more progress from valve, I cant bash them ala cypher.

With the exception of blizzard who really has only made 3 different games there whole existance worth mentioning and leached off of them considerably, Valve is the only company that can really recieve non stop props. Sure, we fine bugs all the time from there games. But fuck me if they dont fix them. It may be a bit until certian bugs and gameplay issues arnt fixed to are liking, but they do it. Even when a game has been out for years, they do it. Even when they have mulitple games(and i stress that, cause if you really look at there lineup) come out after, they still update past games. AND THEY UPDATE COMMUNITY DECLARED PROBLEMS.

When a valve games is released, hundreds of thousands of people play it instantly and constantly. We log more hours with in the first week then all the beta testers do the entire testing phase. So of course we find bugs and issues. And guess what, valve fixes them. It may not be tomorrow, but they fix them. Then what do we do? We begin to push the game to new limits, we play it at a competative level that they wernt prepare for (since they earn a hell of a lot more money from regualr pubbers.) And yet they still tailor to the competative community.


Dice, Treyark, Activision, ect .... 2-3 major patches and there done


Dice, maybe 5 for BF2 which was there PILLAR and they still fucked it away.

gotta agree with Cartire. If you look at the cod series. they haven't listened to a single thing the competitive community has said through 5 games. Valve takes e-mails directly from the owner of cevo. they have a +10 in my book right there.

cypher is speaking from experience in dealing with valve updates, while I completely agree they give more attention to updates than does any other company, but sometimes those updates arent for the better of the game or introduce new and unrelated bugs. they are definitely doing something right though.

As a general pubber, I'd say Valve is a great company. As a competitive gamer, albeit I am much less now from that compared to my CPL/WSVG days, Valve sometimes has a poor focus with things. Sure, my opinion with them could be biased seeing how they not only heavily changed the game I once played (Day of Defeat) from being a direct port to the Source engine to being something entirely different, but they continually then chose to run that game into the ground with future updates. It was entirely asinine for the company to prematurely release games like DoD:S and TF2 with bugs that were very apparent within one's first 10 minutes of play, and were rather detrimental to gameplay itself. Even further, I wouldn't exactly give props considering it'll take at least 5 months now for Valve to even give the game more content let alone a means of allowing others to make new levels.. which plenty of other developers release their games with from the start. Still, I will agree they are a better company than their competitors. It would have been interesting to see where the game would have gone, or be now, had Turtle Rock kept full development of the game and not be taken under the wing of Valve and its sometimes pubberifically poor directions with games :\

well, i find it funny when people who start out in the competitive scene of a game at its earliest stages feel that a game is dying or dead. l4d will be around for years, we have 2 campaigns to play atm, a year from now thier should be enough competitive campaigns to never have to play bh or nm in leagues again. the competition will change, as players lose interest more will take thier place as they gain interest. Id say we have a pretty good base of competition here, and I can only see it vastly improving with the game being added to cevo, after the initial free tourney the league's first season will really carry this game.

edit: yes valve has hindered its growth so far, not arguing that at all.

QFT

Look at this way, they have done so much with Team Fortress 2 that it's practically been remade. You should know by now that valve has always striven to push games further past there initial release, and why complain? They are only improving that 50$ or so dollors you spent and making it into something greater. That should be enough to at least prolong the idea of l4d crashing. IC is what we have holding us together as a community and keeping our hopes high for a future with a game that im sure all of us have been dreaming about. Without CL4D & the IRC networks there wouldn't be a competitive community left. (unless you think GB or TWL is worth anything lol) Lets not get so pessimistic over such a short period of time, other wise you're thinking like a liberal. Judging a president only a few months into office. <--- Bad Metaphor but w/e best thing i can think of :(

CEVO & hopefully WCG will skyrocket this game into the competitive levels that most of us strive for. Don't quote me on that though it's just best to look at it optimistically. Also, i don't care if you don't take me serious. i'm just unhappy that the idea of this game crashing in any sense is flowing through the minds of such avid gamers of it disappoints me.

has WCG released its game list?

has WCG released its game list?
Not too sure to be honest, all i know is that they had a poll of which games they should add to there list. L4D was among one of them, but i'm sure it didn't get too many votes though. :(

Edit: Also lol at your sig alex, rid is going to love that