ymmud
06-12-2011, 06:51 AM
so I wrote lil' something for a mentee and thought 'Why not post it'. So, I did. copy pasted from word so it may be a bit confusing. Bit of a general guide for the most common situations in non-uber pushes, all disputable and dependable on the situation of course. he's the guy who does all the damage i.e. the tank in his team so the text is more for people like him
Non-uber pushes & a tank pocket’s role in them
I: 6v6
II:5v6
Disclaimer: if you need tips about how to push against 4 people,
GET HELP.
Disclaimer 2:There are several important assumptions I made:
One, nobody fucks up their DM big time in these pushes.
Two, everybody pushes in when told to, so your team has basic listening skills.
Assuming you and your enemy have everybody up and no one has uber:
1. There aren’t much circumstances when you should push with 6 against 6, as the attacking team is by default at the disadvantage in situations like these. However if you absolutely must, there are 2 ways you can approach such a push:
· Push by the flanks: send your roamer to your scout pair. Those 3 push the enemy scouts. You probably won’t kill anyone by doing that, but they will have to heal up. The moment an enemy scout or two are reported as lit, push in with your combo and demo. Your flank should push in the moment you push in as well. Now it comes down to DM: you have an advantage in the fact that your medic had less to heal at the start. You simply out-damage them: the enemy medic cannot keep everybody on the enemy team alive AND hold the point, so they must fall back or lose players if no one on your team particularly fucked up.
· Push by the front-line: No one can resist getting a bit in front and shooting at the enemy (scream at your team-mates until they stop this by the way, it’s pointless and sometimes helps the enemy as e.g. the pocket can build by your spam and not waste his own rockets.) Abuse this fact: when a soldier starts shooting at choke, or a demo, have your demo + pocket to start spamming back but – importantly – keeping a distance between each other so they don’t both get spammed. The purpose is to make the enemy medic have more to heal. Generally isn't easy to do this as people get out when spammed. Main problem with the front line approach is that the person is probably closer to the medic and so the time you bought isn't enough. good side is that the player won't be at the choke and won't be spamming you when you push. The enemy will get possibly (if unlikely) killed, more likely damaged for 2 players worth of spam while you will only get 1 person damaged for 1 players worth of spam. Simple math, you have the advantage for the next 2-3 seconds, push in. The player – so either the demo or soldier – who did not get damaged in the exchange jumps / is in the front. same as the flanks one, out damage them, don’t fuck up
a. note: the timing of this is not easy, you must tell the side of your team which is not doing the damage to get ready to push but not get spammed. Then you must IMMEDIATELY push in when an enemy is weak, not wait a second or two. This kind of 6 against 6 with no uber pushing requires good, seamless teamwork usually, so I don’t advise it to new-ish teams (~2 months).
b. note 2: After you push in, the usual applies. Focus fire a single person, rinse, repeat
Assuming you have you have a 1 player advantage
2. If the enemy is a scout:
a. If the enemy is competent, they will send a soldier to complement the 2nd scout on the flanks. That gives you 2 options:
a. Send your roamer to your scouts, SLOWLY push in at the front (combo + demo is what I mean by that), while your scouts and roamer fuck up their flanks. Front should push in just enough to engage the enemy front so they can’t help their flank.
b. Do the same as above but at the front, soldier and/or demo bomb, pocket stays with the medic and kills the enemy distracted by the bombers.
c. If they did not send a soldier to their flank, simply use your 2 scouts to either kill or push back the enemy scout, then flank them. If he was killed, just hammer and anvil them, if he was pushed back, stay behind them but don’t engage until they’re distracted by your front pushing, then go in.
3) if the enemy is a medic/demo:
· Push, they can’t hold this. Highly unlikely that they won’t try to get a key pick though, so remember: keep your medic as far away from the fight as it is practically possible so he isn’t easily bombed, optionally keep a scout around your medic to meatshot any bombers.
4) If the enemy is a soldier:
· Means they don’t have a roamer. Overwhelm them at the front; use your roamer to punish their demo while your combo + demo force the enemy combo back. If their combo comes to the help of their demo, use your roamer to bomb the medic. Pocket can’t save both, you can focus fire the medic or demo but 1 will go down without much pressure on you.
· Note: Generally in this situation as a pocket, your job should not be to focus any particular class but push back the enemy combo. If a scout is down you will initially be pressured as much as you pressure them hence why I advised a cautious approach of maintaining the status quo until your flanks do their job, if it’s a soldier you will have less pressure applied to you.
Had boxes in word but no idea how to insert them here, so the text from them (general tips for a pocket as the mentee's a pocket
Boxes:
1
Unlike in uber pushes, in non-uber pushes you are to react, not act. The main role will be played by your playmakers who start pushes. The pocket is too restricted by his leash to the medic to be the playmaker.
2
Pocketing in non-uber pushes 1:
Since you react not act most of the time in these situations, you generally don’t need to exert yourself as much as others, so keep 1-2 rockets reloaded at all times to be prepared for surprises ala scouts on medic.
3
Pocketing in non-uber pushes 2:
Look around, you have more time to do that in these situations so now's the time you should be looking around at what's happening, maybe spotting a scout or something else heading for your medic, maybe something else.
4
Best tip for non-uber pushes is still just to wait for a mistake by your opponent which allows you to push in, but I wrote this assuming no team makes any silly mistakes =p
Non-uber pushes & a tank pocket’s role in them
I: 6v6
II:5v6
Disclaimer: if you need tips about how to push against 4 people,
GET HELP.
Disclaimer 2:There are several important assumptions I made:
One, nobody fucks up their DM big time in these pushes.
Two, everybody pushes in when told to, so your team has basic listening skills.
Assuming you and your enemy have everybody up and no one has uber:
1. There aren’t much circumstances when you should push with 6 against 6, as the attacking team is by default at the disadvantage in situations like these. However if you absolutely must, there are 2 ways you can approach such a push:
· Push by the flanks: send your roamer to your scout pair. Those 3 push the enemy scouts. You probably won’t kill anyone by doing that, but they will have to heal up. The moment an enemy scout or two are reported as lit, push in with your combo and demo. Your flank should push in the moment you push in as well. Now it comes down to DM: you have an advantage in the fact that your medic had less to heal at the start. You simply out-damage them: the enemy medic cannot keep everybody on the enemy team alive AND hold the point, so they must fall back or lose players if no one on your team particularly fucked up.
· Push by the front-line: No one can resist getting a bit in front and shooting at the enemy (scream at your team-mates until they stop this by the way, it’s pointless and sometimes helps the enemy as e.g. the pocket can build by your spam and not waste his own rockets.) Abuse this fact: when a soldier starts shooting at choke, or a demo, have your demo + pocket to start spamming back but – importantly – keeping a distance between each other so they don’t both get spammed. The purpose is to make the enemy medic have more to heal. Generally isn't easy to do this as people get out when spammed. Main problem with the front line approach is that the person is probably closer to the medic and so the time you bought isn't enough. good side is that the player won't be at the choke and won't be spamming you when you push. The enemy will get possibly (if unlikely) killed, more likely damaged for 2 players worth of spam while you will only get 1 person damaged for 1 players worth of spam. Simple math, you have the advantage for the next 2-3 seconds, push in. The player – so either the demo or soldier – who did not get damaged in the exchange jumps / is in the front. same as the flanks one, out damage them, don’t fuck up
a. note: the timing of this is not easy, you must tell the side of your team which is not doing the damage to get ready to push but not get spammed. Then you must IMMEDIATELY push in when an enemy is weak, not wait a second or two. This kind of 6 against 6 with no uber pushing requires good, seamless teamwork usually, so I don’t advise it to new-ish teams (~2 months).
b. note 2: After you push in, the usual applies. Focus fire a single person, rinse, repeat
Assuming you have you have a 1 player advantage
2. If the enemy is a scout:
a. If the enemy is competent, they will send a soldier to complement the 2nd scout on the flanks. That gives you 2 options:
a. Send your roamer to your scouts, SLOWLY push in at the front (combo + demo is what I mean by that), while your scouts and roamer fuck up their flanks. Front should push in just enough to engage the enemy front so they can’t help their flank.
b. Do the same as above but at the front, soldier and/or demo bomb, pocket stays with the medic and kills the enemy distracted by the bombers.
c. If they did not send a soldier to their flank, simply use your 2 scouts to either kill or push back the enemy scout, then flank them. If he was killed, just hammer and anvil them, if he was pushed back, stay behind them but don’t engage until they’re distracted by your front pushing, then go in.
3) if the enemy is a medic/demo:
· Push, they can’t hold this. Highly unlikely that they won’t try to get a key pick though, so remember: keep your medic as far away from the fight as it is practically possible so he isn’t easily bombed, optionally keep a scout around your medic to meatshot any bombers.
4) If the enemy is a soldier:
· Means they don’t have a roamer. Overwhelm them at the front; use your roamer to punish their demo while your combo + demo force the enemy combo back. If their combo comes to the help of their demo, use your roamer to bomb the medic. Pocket can’t save both, you can focus fire the medic or demo but 1 will go down without much pressure on you.
· Note: Generally in this situation as a pocket, your job should not be to focus any particular class but push back the enemy combo. If a scout is down you will initially be pressured as much as you pressure them hence why I advised a cautious approach of maintaining the status quo until your flanks do their job, if it’s a soldier you will have less pressure applied to you.
Had boxes in word but no idea how to insert them here, so the text from them (general tips for a pocket as the mentee's a pocket
Boxes:
1
Unlike in uber pushes, in non-uber pushes you are to react, not act. The main role will be played by your playmakers who start pushes. The pocket is too restricted by his leash to the medic to be the playmaker.
2
Pocketing in non-uber pushes 1:
Since you react not act most of the time in these situations, you generally don’t need to exert yourself as much as others, so keep 1-2 rockets reloaded at all times to be prepared for surprises ala scouts on medic.
3
Pocketing in non-uber pushes 2:
Look around, you have more time to do that in these situations so now's the time you should be looking around at what's happening, maybe spotting a scout or something else heading for your medic, maybe something else.
4
Best tip for non-uber pushes is still just to wait for a mistake by your opponent which allows you to push in, but I wrote this assuming no team makes any silly mistakes =p