My team have always had a hard time re-taking Granary mid in an Uber-vs-Uber situation. There are many disadvantages in my mind, and in the MmM vs Col. Granary match, I've seen this push work against MmM in a big way. Short of letting the enemy team push into us in the 3-2 yard, I can't seem to think of a better strat.

Several disadvantages:
-you're forced to pop early through the choke due to stickies
-the enemy combo has plenty of places to retreat, and it's difficult to force a pop
-taking the crates doesn't really give you much of an advantage, because the other team can just retreat to the other crates
-the enemy demo can put a lot of damage to attacking soldiers on the crate
-you always need someone to push from the flank in order to prevent a back-cap. But you split your forces into two

One strong push I've heard of (though never executed properly) is to leave your demo watching choke, while everyone else pushes through garage. Having both your scouts stagger in after the uber allows for a decent 6v5 situation, as opposed to the 6v2 situation that sometimes happens when you uber both soldiers into their whole team. The scouts can provide support, take crates, clean up after both ubers wear off, etc.

Please share your experience retaking this point. I'd be interested to know.

The thing about retaking gran mid, or any mid point, is that you need some advantage to trigger your push. Going in with them 6 up + uber won't ever work unless you have a colossal health advantage or their positioning is horrendous. The best option really is to wait for them to push into you, since you can make up for your spawn disadvantage by spamming the chokes.

To have a reasonable chance of capping on your push, you need to have at least two of the following (three if you have charge disadvantage) and be 6 up (it starts getting more situational when you're not 6 up, too detailed to really go into):
-scout pick
-solly pick
-5s uber advantage
-caught the enemy overextended
-300hp advantage

Or count any of these as two of the above:
-demo pick
-med pick
-10s uber advantage
-500hp advantage

As for the actual execution of the push, you have to be fast (the spawn advantage does not give you much time to capitalize on picks), and you have to have a clear idea of your goal. The way you should move in depends on what advantage you're pushing from.

If it was a demo or solly pick, you can get up in their combo's face and threaten a pop to intimidate them into retreating, but try to save your charge. Their goal in that situation is to make you pop, then push back into you with uber once they have their spawns. You want to prevent that by forcing them or killing their medic, but if they play properly you won't be able to do that -- instead try to save your uber so they can't push back in.

If you have scout picks, you want to move a bit slower with your combo, draw all of the enemy spam to one door, and uber into them once your scouts are prepared to attack from the flank. The timing of this is hard because you need your scouts to be in position to ensure the enemy pop, but you also have a smaller window to work with -- once their scouts spawn, they will be back in the action very fast.

If you have no picks but a significant uber advantage, you'll (probably) have to pop on the door to avoid dying to spam (though it's better if you can save your charge), and force them to leave mid as you cap. By doing this, you reverse the situation -- it basically says "yeah, we can take mid with our uber, can you?". When this situation arises, you'll often see mid get traded back and forth several times before someone decides to sit on yard or gets a strong enough advantage on the push to hold mid.

If it's a health advantage you're pushing off of, it's pretty straightforward. Kill the lit guys/use them to force a pop, then win the ensuing fight.

Phew. I wanted to post something during class but figured why not wait for Sigma.
Also do not always push he heavies from one side, sometimes sending the roamer/demo in late with scouts is good for keeping the other team occupied having to look at more than one cluster of your team and sort of doubles as an ambush tactic if pulled off right.

Thanks, that's a very clear way of explaining it Sigma. I think from now on I will start pushing only with an advantage instead of pushing into their whole team and having them watch us hungrily as our ubercharge wears off. And then having to explain to my team why we lost 2 points in the process. XD

I find it interesting that you talk about playing differently depending on the type of picks you get. I notice experienced players doing this when they play with us. They'll start comm-ing 'their demo is down so you can probably take 2'.

Right now I'm at a point where I know that if the enemy demoman is down, I don't have to worry about checking stickies. But I rarely made the connection between being down a demoman and having a weaker combo that you can push into and take advantage of. I'd be interested to hear more about how having down different classes changes the way you play.

when trying to retake mid, when both teams are holding an uber you want to do a few things prior to the push. You want to have your demo watching one doorway into the yard with a trap, and the soldiers watching the other door. Try to wait for the other team to push in, and pop the uber first. Hopefully the demo will get a pick with his trap, but either way if you are putting good spam on the doors you should make them pop before they actually step into the yard, and it should give your team enough time to fall back enough to be out of range of the incoming uber. Make sure you hold your uber for as long as you can so you can push back with a big advantage.

If the other team will no push the yard and it is a stalemate... setup the same way and have your scouts split to see which side looks less defended. As aaron said you dont want to send all the heavy classes out the same way. For example, if the enemy team seems to be stacking the garage, have the demo sticky up the door, and have the combo on that door with him. Spam rollers and rockets to try and do some damage, and if the other teams sees the demo/soldier being buffed they will know thats where the medic is and expect the push to come from that side. They will also be more willing to stay in the garage and trade spam in hopes of putting some damage on your medic, so make sure you keep him out of harms way, but let them know hes there to keep them focused on the garage.

Send the roamer and scouts left (let one scout cross through first to check for traps) and if you manage to get in without being spotted you can flank the enemy team in the garage and box them in, most likely force them to pop uber. if they do they will either try to push the yard, or fall back to middle knowing they are now at a disadvantage. If you are spotted coming in from the left the enemy team will still have to adjust, and they will want to get out of the garage to avoid being boxed in. Use this to get your combo and demo into the garage. If the left flank is spotted have them try to get to the opposide side of middle and cutoff any escape route. if you stay in your left corner it gives the enemy team a chance to get to their side of middle and then have a safe path out if you uber in on them. If you get behind them and control the tops of the crates they will be in trouble and you can control the flow of the battle from there.

just push you pussy.

Crap, forgot this wasn't gotfrag, I gotta say inciteful stuff huh?

Um...yea, this is when your concentrated spam skills come in handy. Your team HAS to punish any players that overextend. When that happens, push.
I've always found that a solly suiciding first to make the other medic pop, giving you the uber advantage, works well.