First of all I am one of those guys who would prefer to ban every unlockable except the medic ones.
However this won't happen...

For the soldier's rocket launcher:
Actually they can't really change much.
My only suggestion would be to reduce/remove the self damage in order to less/no splash damage. Since you hardly ever hit a direct rocket on towards a pro scout the soldier might needs a 5th rocket or no damage loss over distance.

Shotgun:
???

Shovel:
abomination: "if they add a shovel which I can throw, I am happy"
(he is a inactive div 1 soldier for those who don't know him.

The pipe launcher:
a slower fire rate but if you hit 2 pipes right after the 2nd will do 15% more dmg. =1. pipe 100% dmg 2. pipe 115% 3. 130% and so on and so forth.

Sticky launcher:
the standart sticky launcher should lose it's charge ability and the new sticky launcher should still have it but it takes about 0.2 sec longer to detonate a sticky.

The bottle:
you only do half damage but if you taunt you can do a single jump with only taking half damage.


(sry for my English)

Feel fee to tell me what you think about my ideas or post your own

For the soldier's rocket launcher:
Actually they can't really change much.
My only suggestion would be to reduce/remove the self damage in order to less/no splash damage. Since you hardly ever hit a direct rocket on towards a pro scout the soldier might needs a 5th rocket or no damage loss over distance.

Perhaps, but splash damage to enemies is much, much more important than none to yourself (you have a medic for a reason).


Shotgun:
???

I think everyone can agree that a long-range hitscan weapon would be nice.


Shovel:
abomination: "if they add a shovel which I can throw, I am happy"
(he is a inactive div 1 soldier for those who don't know him.

Maybe. I think it could work with a damage reduction.


The pipe launcher:
a slower fire rate but if you hit 2 pipes right after the 2nd will do 15% more dmg. =1. pipe 100% dmg 2. pipe 115% 3. 130% and so on and so forth.

That sounds very complicated, to be perfectly honest.


Sticky launcher:
the standart sticky launcher should lose it's charge ability and the new sticky launcher should still have it but it takes about 0.2 sec longer to detonate a sticky.

No. Removing the charge from the Sticky launcher is a bad idea. I think most people will agree. Maybe an alternative could be that they won't stick to anything, but they can't be shot.


The bottle:
you only do half damage but if you taunt you can do a single jump with only taking half damage.

Again, sounds complicated.

my idea for the rocket launcher could be very usefull for roaming soldier.
Imagine: a soldier who jumps in, right onto your medic combo and he will get off a rocket while he is still in midair and lands with at least 180 hp because of fall damage.
I would give up my complete or at least half of my splash damage.
It might would be balanced if you can't get overhealed.

A long range shotty would change too much...

Does anyone else have a good idea?

The Soldier and Demo updates are going to be very controversial for the competitive community. look at how much debate the FaN has had over the last few months. You can just start a topic called "Fan" on gotfrag and expect over 100 replies.

I truly expect the soldier and demo's new weapons to be just as debated.

I have been thinking about the Soldier's weapons for awhile now, and here's my personal ideas:

Homing Launcher

Basically this would work similar to the rockets in the dodgeball mod. They seek out a target and hit them directly. How would this work and be balanced? It's pretty simple, since it's doing a direct hit, you won't be able to pop up an enemy in the air, giving them time to either run away or attack back. Plus, seeing how direct rockets do more damage and is usually pretty much the same, you could easily drop the damage down to 75 per rocket, meaning the 125 classes and Medics could be taken down with two rockets just as they can now. That then leaves Pyro, Demoman, Soldier, and Heavy left. I was thinking maybe a -25% clip size, which means 3 rockets, so that you could take out everything else but the Heavy (but I mean come on, that class needs a break somehow...). It still seems somewhat overpowered, seeks out a target and two rockets can easily take out most classes, but what they could do is drop the firing and reload speed, giving other classes a good amount of reaction time. It could definitely use some work, but I think it's doable.

Grenades

I think it'd be reasonable to let the Soldier utilize his two grenades he has hanging off his uniform. I mean, most of the secondary weapons have been replaced with something that matches the class. A flare gun for a pyromaniac, a Sandvich for a fat guy, and an energy drink for an annoying little fast dude. The grenades could either work like the Demoman's grenade launcher does, except maybe not nearly as much damage. Another thing that could be worked on.

For the "military entrenchment tool"... eh, I have no solid ideas. The shovel is used so rarely except when playing around in pubs and melee battling, but even then it's not the best choice. Anything that could actually be useful would definitely be good...

Serious ideas = usefull/possible/balanced side grades in competitive gameplay.

Homing rockets... A steam forum idea..

Nades: as we all know (!!) valve REMOVED them from tfc to tf2. Because they decided to have only one spam class and that firing explosives round corners should be one of it's main advantages.
And do we really need more spam in tf2?

Two Words: Assault Rifle...

Two Words: Assault Rifle...

Oh yeah that's exactly what we need a soldier with a m4 or ak 47.

*shrug* There's no other long-range hit-scan weapon besides the sniper rifle. Totally fits the motif of TF2. Would just be a more powerful version of the snipe's SMG w/ a lil more long range accuracy.

Considering that the solly would lose his ability to rocket jump any offensive advantage would be balanced out by his slowness. Would be very helpful for a pocket soldier taking out Scouts, although it wouldn't put them down as quick as a rocket to the feet. Still fits the spam role of Sollys as well. I think it could be easily balanced.

Serious ideas = usefull/possible/balanced side grades in competitive gameplay.

Homing rockets... A steam forum idea..

Nades: as we all know (!!) valve REMOVED them from tfc to tf2. Because they decided to have only one spam class and that firing explosives round corners should be one of it's main advantages.
And do we really need more spam in tf2?
Eh... true... I've always kinda sucked when it came to coming up with stuff like this. :P

Anyone remember the (fake) screenshots of beta rocket launchers? One of them had the attributes "+50% clip capacity, -40% damage, no self-damage." I think that would be a cool weapon because it would offer the soldier insane mobility at the cost of a lot of power, it would make him a lot like TFC scout in that sense. Being able to get onto the enemy crates on granary before the scouts even arrive would definitely be neat. A soldier wielding such a weapon wouldn't really constitute a "heavy" class either, requiring less maintenance in terms of heals (due to lack of self-damage) and lack of ability to protect the medic, so if a team used it to replace a scout, they might use a heavy to replace the spot left by the soldier using the light rocket launcher.

Even the shotgun would do more damage and its easier to hit something...
And you still have "only" 200 hp; a scout has to hit you 2 times and you are down.. but you need 2 directs and your shotgun for a single scout

I'd like more than one shotty unlock in place of a shovel unlock, seeing as shovel is rarely used seriously, whereas the shotgun is a major staple of the soldier class, and secondary weapons have been the most interesting unlocks so far.

I think fish has a good point. Maybe one of the Shottie replacements could be a non-weapon and one could be a rifle. I don't really think they could make an Assault Rifle work in the context, tbh. Remember, TF2 takes place in the 60's

I think fish has a good point. Maybe one of the Shottie replacements could be a non-weapon and one could be a rifle. I don't really think they could make an Assault Rifle work in the context, tbh. Remember, TF2 takes place in the 60'sWhat about a B.A.R.? Soldier was apparently a WWII veteran, so a B.A.R. definitely would fit his backstory.

A bolt-action rifle would definitely fit. One idea would be to give him a rifle that is basically the sniper rifle with several changes: remove the scope, add damage dropoff, and reduce the base damage to something around 30 damage. Such a weapon would be pretty weak for actual combat at close ranges, but it would give the soldier the ability to get decent damage in against fleeing enemies, which is an ability that he currently lacks. (It kind of sucks when you're spamming your shotgun at a scout as he flees but he still manages to escape with a sliver of HP.) Think of it like a pistol with no spread and higher burst damage at the cost of lower rate of fire and less DPS overall.

A bolt-action rifle would definitely fit. One idea would be to give him a rifle that is basically the sniper rifle with several changes: remove the scope, add damage dropoff, and reduce the base damage to something around 30 damage. Such a weapon would be pretty weak for actual combat at close ranges, but it would give the soldier the ability to get decent damage in against fleeing enemies, which is an ability that he currently lacks. (It kind of sucks when you're spamming your shotgun at a scout as he flees but he still manages to escape with a sliver of HP.) Think of it like a pistol with no spread and higher burst damage at the cost of lower rate of fire and less DPS overall.I see it working more like the SMG, but still the same idea overall.

It could still be a shotgun...
30 damage over any distance.

I see it working more like the SMG, but still the same idea overall.
Ever since the classless update, pistol and SMG are basically the same weapon, the only difference is that the pistol has 50% higher DPS but has to reload after 1.5 seconds of constant fire whereas the SMG can fire for 2.5 seconds without reloading. (Also, the pistol's reload time is about 24% higher than that of the SMG.)
It could still be a shotgun...
30 damage over any distance.
Shotgun actually has the same damage dropoff as the pistol. The reason that it's such a bad weapon at far range is that each shot fires 10 pellets, and the spread of those pellets makes it much harder to get enough pellets to hit at far range. So if you want the weapon to be effective across all ranges, it should not be a shotgun. A bolt-action rifle makes perfect sense: it deals good damage across all ranges, and it has a limited rate of fire.

There is a kind of shotgun which fires only a single but lethal bullet. I don't know how to call it in English

There is a kind of shotgun which fires only a single but lethal bullet. I don't know how to call it in English
I think you're referring to a shotgun slug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug).

The differences seem to be mostly cosmetic (as you could create a slug-loaded shotgun and a bolt-action rifle), personally my preference is toward the rifle end (since the soldier is a World War II vet) but it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

I think the B.A.R would very well fit. I think I like the Rifle idea best, though, especially Kuiper's very detailed idea.

How about for the bolt-action rifle, it (mini)crits against airborne targets? Either regular or minicrits would be fine, because the important thing to note would be that both have great knockback, which would make it better against demo/soldiers jumping for your medic, but worse against scouts.

Actually, the idea of a rocket launcher that mini-crits on airshots or direct hits (with the penalty possibly being something like reduced splash damage) might be interesting as well. The interesting thing to note is that rocket launcher mini-crits just barely fall short of one-shotting scouts, so you still preserve balance in that direction. Another cool thing about giving minicrits as a reward is that the bonus damage scales with distance: close range targets take marginally more damage, whereas far-range targets take significantly boosted damage from minicrits (due to the fact that minicrits ignore damage dropoff).

For people who aren't aware the BAR is a Browning Automatic Rifle, a rifle used in WWII, not a bolt action rifle :D In WW2 Shooters it's typically the weapon given to the "support" class.

For people who aren't aware the BAR is a Browning Automatic Rifle, a rifle used in WWII, not a bolt action rifle :D In WW2 Shooters it's typically the weapon given to the "support" class.

Oh yes, but automatic weapons are boring as hell.

For demoman, a simple shotgun. It would be a multi-space weapon, so you can trade either the sticky launcher or nade launcher for it, imagine the surprise a scout would get when trying to pick off a demo and find him with a hitscan weapon. Another is a grenade launcher that holds 8 grenades and uses the old detonation system (nades can bounce off of walls and still detonate on contact, as well as if a player walks over them) but it has a 2 second timer before it can actually explode on contact, before the timer is up the nades would bounce off like stickies off of enemies. For the sticky launcher perhaps auto-detonating stickies, that land like mines and there is no trigger to detonate them but they do if enemies go near them. For bottle perhaps an actual flack vest that reduces explosive splash damage, as well as self damage, but slows you down to soldier speed.

For soldier a shovel that crits when the soldier is at red hp, but has slower swing speed when he is above red. A rocket launcher that does less splash damage, which means you can jump more. For the shotgun perhaps a hunting musket that mini-crits in mid-air, or a food item that reduces incoming damage, like pain pills from L4D.

I think both classes should maintain a projectile based playing style. I feel that people really don't want the game to become like cs, in that most everyone only uses hit-scan weapons for kills.

A lot of the visual style of tf2 is from the projectiles and their effects. That doesn't mean that a machine gun or something wouldn't be balanced, but I really doubt valve would implement it.

A shotgun for the demoman I strongly disagree with, because it really aids the demoman in close range combat, and really that shouldn't be fixed. He needs to take self damage close range (although probably not as much as he does now).

I think they need to put in some different flavor of projectiles, I can't really say what would fit I don't play demoman and soldier often enough to have a really good idea of what needs to be added. But I think I know enough to know what shouldn't be added.

I agree with Fish that the melee weapons probably don't need to be changed, as more variety on the two main weapons would add more spice than just a side/upgrade on a weapon that still will rarely be used.

for the primary for a soldier, how about like a gauss rifle from hl; you could jump like now, and it would pretty cool having a railgun-type weapon in tf2 :3

Jeeka we have the sniper rifle, which functions exactly the same :P

But it doesn't have the cool rail sounds.

Buh-bzzzzzzzZZ!

it wouldn't do as much damage, maybe like 70 damage, but you could jump with it!