internetexplorer_

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Hey. We're trying to branch out a little bit and get our scouts running bonk occasionally. As I understand it, it's good for scouting things out with impunity, blocking paths, and then a bunch of exaggerated pub tasks like 'distracting sentries.' Of course, you can also use it to run up obnoxiously and meatshot somebody.

I know Jaeger had that one guide video about sorta 'mechanical' tricks with it, like switching to firstperson (back when it could be done)...are there any other guide videos for it? Like, more to do with tactics, positioning and so on?

As a medic player who blows at scout I don't really have too many ideas beyond the obvious "drink it and then run until you see them and then turn around or something"

Is bonking to 'scout out the enemy combo' even a valid thing or just something I'm seeing in my low/mid scrims?

HALP.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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If the enemy team isn't too bright, you can distract them with a bonked scout.

If they are, you're basically just putting your team down one player.
(Depending on the situation. Bonking behind them might work, putting them into the "omgbehindus" state.)

Also, funny but dick move: Getting both scouts to use bonk and block the house exit on badlands while you have like one solly on their crate and one jumping to their house balcony to flank.
Depending on how fast the enemy demo is..

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2thumbs

Points: 3,805, Level: 41

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Jumpy demos like to det to bonked scouts at chokes. It can help initiate a push. Obviously, when the doors open on Gpit is a good time. if you run a bonked scout straight at the demo on open fights, like granary last, he'll be hard pressed not to focus on that one little 4 foot hooligan while the push comes in behind it.

God I hate scouts.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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Good answers so far.

What about using it for scouting (like...finding stuff), though?

I noticed a team doing that against us on Yukon - when we had won mid and they were trying to hold 2nd/move out from 2nd, they would send a scout to find our combo and sorta 'forecast' their pushes.

Obviously that idea has its ups and downs. Does anyone do this and have some protips? Like I say, I'm really bad at scout - are there legitimately times when you can't just use your speed and jumps to gain information, and you need bonk? Perhaps certain chokepoints/traps? For that spot on Yukon I can see the reasoning easily - going through the tunnel is really easy to stop, and going the other way presents you with your choice of two long hallways...better to become invincible before you start running through. What about other maps, though?

It seems like a fun idea to run behind them so they have to adjust their positioning and divide their attention (like zigzter said) while telling your team where to push. Seems like something that has to be carefully rehearsed so that you aren't just sending one of the scouts to die on a whim each time.

Zigzter

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On my old team we used to have one of our Scouts use bonk to check on the enemy, but that really depended on the map/situation.

For example, if there's lots of room to maneuver, you can probably send a Scout in to check without having to use Bonk.
If it's enclosed and you have no idea where the other team really is, it might be better to send a Scout in bonked, since the chance of a sticky trap or getting juggled is much greater.

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brainpower4

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I actually saw this in a pub, but I can't see why it couldn't be applied to a real game. A scout went bonk, and stood right in the middle the spam lanes going out his way to block shots. It was actually pretty impressive to watch. In one bonk he blocked 4 rockets, a pipe, and a reflected rocket.

Zigzter

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Might work for retreating, but if it's even you might just end up blocking your teammates' projectiles as well.

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kuza

Points: 2,021, Level: 28

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You mainly use it to make their demo blow his stickies so you can enter the area without popping uber. Or you can call which door they are on and go through the other if he didn't pop. Another good use is to send a scout down the pipe on granary last and start jumping on their heads while your roamer jumps in for the medic pick. These are just some example of how I use it. It's best use is getting out of situations where you would have normally died. You're super hurt, 2 people chasing you and you manage to get around a corner, nothing sucks more for them then you getting that can in you and running off to a health pack and to your friends.

Wolfy

Points: 233, Level: 4

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you can also reload all six shots of your scatter during the bonk

rehab

Points: 1,582, Level: 23

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If your scouts end up being comfortable with bonk, see if they like the idea of using cover to block enemy line-of-sight for a sec and drinking to get out of a duel going wrong. It depends on the movement and flow of a duel, and whether the cover is something like behind a Granary crate or behind a strut under Badlands' middle bridge, but if they can literally get 2 spare seconds, counting weapon switch time and abit over 1 second of drinking time, they'll have 6 seconds of bonk to beeline straight to an exit or something.

That's part of why I've vastly preferred using bonk to the pistol in almost all situations except DM practice for a while. I'm definitely not an experienced fan of the pistol, to be fair, but I don't think the pistol is a big fan of mine, either.

Nitty gritty bonk stats according to tf2wiki, which've always seemed accurate to me:
Interruptible drink time: 1.2 seconds
Bonk! time: 6 seconds
Recharge period: 24 seconds

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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In general I like all these ideas. Keep 'em coming!

As a medic player, something I like to point out is that "1.2 seconds + 6 seconds + <the time it takes you to round a corner and switch weapons after taking damage>" is really close to 10 seconds...and that's where healing ramps up. Scouts in general get ramped heals by the time they get back to me, but using bonk pretty much guarantees it. It makes healing priority and timing a lot more smooth.

It's pretty cool to be able to survive when things go south, then be back in peoples' faces fully overhealed as soon as you can. Probably a bit tense to not have bonk recharged for another few seconds, though.

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

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I am a medic, sometimes I would have one of my scouts bonk to see where the combo or demoman is, The reason why I say one or the other is, well, if they have uber and we have kritz I would like to know where combo is to eliminate that uber and possibly make them drop. if we have the advantage we will go for demo and lose their defense. Depending on the map the demo will be near combo and it will be easier with the kritz.

bonk scout is good for telling rough position layout of the enemy team and have my team adjust to it accordingly.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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Yeah that's what I'm seeing for sure. It's like the cloak in that it gets you places unharmed, but it's more obnoxious because they can see you..they just can't stop you unless they have perfect juggling.

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

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Forgot to mention when I see bonk scout I usually move my location since this has happened couple of times (the krit statement I made)

chapdizzle

Points: 1,312, Level: 21

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you guys are forgetting one of the most important benefits of bonk. if you KNOW your scout has better dm than their scouts, you can use it to flank blatantly and force a scout to follow and 1v1 him. if more than 1 follows, that means the combo has less support.

bonk, force 1v1, win 1v1, you're now a man up, and have someone behind them.

b4nny

Points: 1,850, Level: 26

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One useful but situational trick is to drink bonk, wait 4 seconds then run through the choke so that you are guaranteed a safe entry from a trap but then you can shoot immediately after you get through, which catches them off guard if they're expecting 5 more seconds of bonk. Its best to try if the demo is relatively alone or really close to the choke/door.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

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Nice :)

mrslin

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nice banny

my understanding of bonk is that you want to only use it on certain maps with choke points that are hard to get around and easy for demomen to trap. granary and gravelpit come to mind. on other maps like badlands, yukon, or gullywash you may not find it as useful. basically you're using the bonk to scout out the other side of the choke without risk of death.

i strongly suggest you take the word "occasionally" seriously as running bonk on every single map is not optimal.

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bucKy

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I personally believe that if you are comfortable with running bonk instead of your pistol, then go for it.
Thats what I do at least. Rarely do I ever catch my self pulling out my pistol. When I use bonk I feel a sense of freedom knowing that I can go scout out an area without dying. For example the badlands choke to spire. I believe it's just preference.

kuza

Points: 2,021, Level: 28

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it's good to have when you need it, and survival is king.

chapdizzle

Points: 1,312, Level: 21

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why is the engi pistol so goddamn aimboatastic compared to the scout? makes me sad.

zephyr

Points: 1,989, Level: 27

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Bonk is by far way more effective than running the pistol. The scout pistol's accuracy is basically non-existent and the amount of times that bonk will save you over getting a kill is WAY more useful not only in terms of you getting away, but it is such a dynamic item that it's useful in almost every single situation and your team will love you for running it.

Here's a bunch of ways I like to run the bonk.

1- Saving your life
2- Scouting out enemy positions/sticky traps
3- Distracting the enemy
4- Going for a pick
5- Blocking enemy's pathing

Here's my explanation for each example.

1- This is one of the typical ways of running bonk and probably the playstyle that most people associate with bonk. Example: Your team just wiped, you're low on health, the enemy knows of your position. Solution : Bonk and run. Why is this useful? Staying alive after failed pushes, failed flanks or getting caught out of position will indirectly help your team immediately after getting into a safe position, not only will you be able to get another chance at going for picks or holding flanks but your team will not be a man down.

2- This is probably the second most obvious playstyle for bonk. Example : Your team is pushing badlands last with uber at a 50% uber advantage, odds are the enemy demo is going to place a forward trap in hopes of getting a pick or killing your medic with uber. Solution : Bonk through the direct path that your combo is about to push and look for traps. Pretty straightforward, but if your team is lacking chemistry or coordination this little play could single handedly win rounds.

3- This playstyle along with #4 are my personal favourites, and are generally not that common among lower tiers of competitive play. Example : You're rolling out to mid at the beginning of the round, their demoman is really causing your team a lot of trouble and hes making your team take more damage than they can handle. Solution : Bonk near their shithouse and run past him into their choke while your roamer (or even both soldiers) jump enemy train during the rollout through valley. Odds are he's dead, if that's not the case, you're behind him and ready to clean him off.

4- This is probably the riskiest use for bonk but it can pay off if you're team can handle being a man down if it doesnt work out. Example : You're building uber with a slight advantage, the uber % is fairly low and is far enough away to go for a pick. You realize their demo is slightly overextended but is covered with traps. Solution : Bonk in and go for him or other easy targets. Like I said this is the hardest to pull off and provides the lowest success/usefulness but if your dm and movement is good enough 7/10 you'll pull off a pick and allow your team an easy push (sometimes without even using uber, especially if you pick the demo)

5- This last use for bonk is amazing and there's no downside to doing it and it is really beneficial for your team. Example : Badlands mid fight, your team is getting heavily out DM'd and the odds are against you, they are doing a standard house rollout and the soldiers are jumping your medic/demo. Solution : Bonk from under the bridge and block the house exit. There are endless ways for using this bonk playstyle. Another example is blocking enemy uber pushes, protecting teammates (I actually saved our sniper during a viaduct match by bonking and blocking a soldier and making him kill himself, it was pretty funny) as well as securing picks by blocking the enemy's from backing off.

So that's all I can come up with now, the biggest tip I can say in using bonk is just be creative and COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR TEAM. If you dont tell your team about using the bonk and what you're doing with it your team cant capitalize. Bonk is one of the most useful items in this game and should never be overlooked.

/nerdessay

zephyr

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Here's a match where me and my scout partner used bonk for nearly all if not the whole game. It was pretty key in many situations and helped us secure the win.

http://www.esportsea.com/index.php?s...tch&id=2088331

You can download the STV and watch it if you please.

CHE

Points: 2,790, Level: 34

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that was a good match......bonk is very important

Mongoose

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the speed you move at makes it harder to keep the spread intact(yes, the pistol has spread, not like a shotgun, more like a cone of where the bullet can go). for some reason I don't find it hard to hit consecutive hits with the pistol.

I like the pistol for finishing people off, but bonk in the end is more useful for plays.

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internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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glad to see the thread's still going

nice demo and stuff, zephyr

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

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make sure you actually check the stickies when you bonk

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b4nny

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Almost... the other medic can easily hit you with the ubersaw and gain a nice uber advantage/extend his uber. I've seen my teammate Shade do it several times, too. Say you did it at the start of badlands mid; a 25% hit could honestly make a huge difference in that fight. But chances are it will slip their mind and youll get away with it anyways.

zephyr

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Eh, that's true. I've never actually seen it personally but that's definitely something to keep in mind.

docsfox

Points: 980, Level: 17

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Dead thread now but I'm bored.


It's risky but you can use bonk to charge in to crowded situations and basically hug a medic. Often half of the team will panic and the medic will jump wildly. Once bonk fades you have the intial free meatshot on the medic and his teammates only have the time between your first and second shot to kill you or you'll kill the medic, assuming your aim isn't off. And even if you don't finish the medic off he will still have low health and if your team is supporting you the enemy will be forced back or risk their medic dying from a stray rocket or demo pill.

In that same situation you can force ubers if the medic is skittish. But again, it's a risky play.


A fun thing to do with bonk is to hug a soldier and hope he fires a rocket before bonk wears off. The splash will hurt him and you get a meatshot. For me this usually ends up in both of us dying after he fires another rocket though. If he doesn't fire that intial rocket I'd usually back off.

Bonked scouts can also steal ammo and medpacks from the enemy, maybe not incredibly useful but something to concider.

And since I don't see it directly mentioned, let's not forget the inspiration for bonk's creation in the first place. A way to get past sentries. Rather than distracting or tanking sentry damage, run past it and annoy reinforcements. Of course that wouldn't be helpful on, say, the last point of several CP maps.