inGin

Points: 1,016, Level: 18

Activity: 12.1%

Posting this from GotFrag

KillingInTheName:
After a lengthy talk with ingin, I've figured out that I need to ask for help instead of expecting it, which is true in every way. This right here is me asking for it, ESEA currently has around 30-35 teams (including invite) which means were somewhere near the halfway point of reaching the 50 team goal.

Lansky came up to me with an idea of getting every team currently registered to get 1-2 teams to sign up, I replied that I had nothing to entice teams to help me boost registration. He said something about good in people, I don't remember. I'm not gonna sit here and say tf2 is dead without ESEA or that ESEA is the best thing that ever happened to TF2 since it's came with its numerous bumps. All I have to offer is my promise to try improve the league to the best of my ability with your support. The team cap has been clouded with the arguments over invite and IM, but if you want an s7 you should concentrate on getting the 50 teams.

There's 10 days left. 30+ teams getting 1 team to sign up will put us in the clear, so all help regardless of the results is much appreciated. There's no man up or save tf2 here, just me asking for a hand.


-------------


That's the end of his post, but here you guys go. Last season we heard that a lot of the lower end teams were refusing to pay just to get rolled. Well, as a reminder, there will be an Intermediate division for the top 12 teams in open, and you should no longer feel like you're going to pay to get stomped. I'm aware that most of you already know that, but I'd like to see the league not get shut down because teams aren't competing. Get signed up, add killing to your friends list (oxy1234) and talk to him. You might even get a discount. ;)


STAY CLASSY KIDS.

RoGuE

Points: 853, Level: 16

Activity: 5.9%

Has this suddenly changed to 50 teams across all the divisions?

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

There are quite a few different stories, the last post I saw from lpkane was 50 teams in Open and that Invite and Intermediate did not count toward the 50. I have not seen something from him that changed that, it's possible it has, but I haven't seen anything to that extent from him.

http://cl.ly/1w4P

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

I don't see why ESEA shouldn't happen, it is only 15 or so more teams than last season, and with ESEA adding IM there really isn't any reason to not join. If you are worried about the money contact ESEA|Killing in irc and he will help you out.

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

inGin

Points: 1,016, Level: 18

Activity: 12.1%

Intermediate is counted towards open, to the best of my knowledge.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

That is the predominate rumor going around, It would be good to get a solid target to shoot for so clarification from lpkane would be a good thing.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

Again I'm pointing out that it's not that the lower teams are afraid to get rolled. They just don't want to pay to play because they don't have to.

Cevo-a has 3 times the esea minimum, but are having trouble filling their main division. This indicates that teams are hesitant to pay to play.

This is certainly is the case for my team specifically once xpl exploded. We never even considered esea, and this was long before this ultimatum ever occurred.

inGin

Points: 1,016, Level: 18

Activity: 12.1%

I can assure all of you teams that play non-ESEA leagues, the organization of ESEA creates a better gaming experience than any other league. I've played in all of them, there is no comparison.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

You're right, but it doesn't matter. All they are looking for is 6 v 6 tf2. And it comes down to the team leaders choice of: " Do we burden our roster with payment, or do we join another league for free?"

It may seem insignificant to you but it's the reason why they don't have 50 teams yet.

Like I said when our team was looking for a another league once xpl died, we never even considered esea. This was a month or two prior to the esea "deal".

It wasn't in spite of anything, we looked at our options and went with cevo specifically because it is a good league, and we were not obligated to pay to play.

inGin

Points: 1,016, Level: 18

Activity: 12.1%

it's like 21 bucks and some change for the entire season... over the course of 3 months, if 21 bucks is a burden for you, you need to do something with your time other than play video games.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

It isn't a burden to most, more the lack of seeing a need to spend it.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

It's not a burden in that... "oh shit I can't afford it." It's the burden in that getting 8 players getting it done is extra hassle I don't need.

Either way I'm not for or against people joining esea. I'm just providing you with the reasoning why people are choosing to play in other leagues.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

Actually, it really comes down to, "are we willing to put the work into getting better and are we a close enough team to make it through the season, or are we not?" The fact is that for any team that is devoting time to this game, and can field 6 players, there isn't a better league than esea. Skill level doesn't matter. I think that for any team low/mid - high you aren't going to get more out of any league. If you stick it through the season, i promise you'll be twice the better team than if you just played in cevo-a.

If you can't field 6 people or you aren't willing to put the time in, than that is fine. There is some kind of weird feeling about ESEA, like it is only for the good teams or something, but that just isn't true, it is for everyone. It can work for everyone. Paying really isn't that big of a deal, and you know what, next season there will prolly be even more sponsors willing to help teams pay. Plus, again again, killing is willing to help. If you are playing with people that are just complaining about it and don't wanna do it because it is a "burden" (though i don't see the burden) than that is their own fault.

Basically, if you had the money to buy TF2, you should have the money to pay for ESE

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

Para Goomba

Points: 1,387, Level: 21

Activity: 8.3%

^^@defiance

I did not buy tf2, I use my friends account cuz 20 bucks is a lot.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

Wrong. It comes down to " Why pay when we can do the same thing without paying?" I don't see why you take such a negative perspective on teams joining cevo. I have absolutely nothing against esea at all, it's a great league and I am fully aware of the fact that it has the best competition. However our team currently is not at the stage where we are all ready to pay if we don't have to, I've talked to every member about it and they are all in favor of cevo. I can assure you that every member are also dedicated to improving their game.

Mock us however you want for joining cevo-a, tell us we don't want to improve, and insult us however you want to. We are, and I'm sure many many other teams are as well, making steps forward and improving as a team.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

I just laugh at people not thinking that they can scrim people better than them unless they're in ESEA. I did seasons of ESEA, and I did seasons without ESEA. There was no correlation in the amount that we improved, and if anything, we improved more when we had more time to scrim (because for whatever reason, people have a harder time getting people in a server for matches than for scrims). If you find it difficult to improve without paying money, well... hahaha okay. Whatever works for you mate.

oblivion

Points: 1,001, Level: 18

Activity: 33.3%

Amen.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

http://commforums.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=117

because we all know how serious scrims are taken for some of the better teams, and we all know that teams want to scrim teams they will 5-0

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

Bodknocks

Points: 2,419, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

I don't think anyone was mocking you. There's nothing wrong with CEVO-A, almost everyone in the entire community has played in CEVO-A at some point. You will get better and you are making the right steps towards improving.

I think the skill set for ESEA-O this season will be equivalent to the top CEVO-A teams + CEVO-M. So if that's where your team is at I think ESEA-O would be good for your team. If not, well, don't do it I guess. But Killing is giving out two Freemium accounts so just keep that mind when thinking about the costs for your team. :)

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

If there are 49 teams signed up and those are still available we'll do it.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

ESEA provides more for any league, free or not. So you aren't really getting the same thing. I am not taking a negative perspective on any team joining CEVO. There is nothing wrong with cevo, I never said there was anything wrong with it, all i said was that you will get more consistent teams in ESEA than you will in cevo. If that is "mocking" or "insulting" or "being negative" than I apologize, but I really can't see how there is any insult in there at all. I'm just saying it is worth the very little money that it is, and that you will improve more in any division in ESEA than you will in CEVO.

I understand that you don't wanna pay to get 5-0'd. I was in the same position with my team last season and we decided not to join, however, if there were an IM division I would have.

I am not insulting anybody and am not mocking anyone for doing anything. I never said you didn't wanna improve, the only thing I said what is that if you are really wanting to improve, than ESEA is the best league for you. IDK how you see that as an insult, but alrighty.

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

Bodknocks

Points: 2,419, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

That's sort of the problem though. There are a lot of teams right now that are hesitating to sign up, waiting for more teams to sign up before they commit.

Not trying to call you out specifically but I think it's a trickle-down effect. Everyone's trying to wait until there are 49 teams signed up before they sign up, but if they would all just sign up together, we'd probably have 50 by now. That's why this whole "50 teams or else" ultimatum was such a disaster. It didn't get more teams to sign up, and made those teams weary of joining.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

Ok since you're being fair and reasonable I'll talk it over with my team. If they're up for it and there are freemium slots up for grabs we'll probably do it.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

Practice how you perform? Am I the only one that has done music or sports or one of the few-ish activities that has gotten good as a whole at improving?

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

QFT

If you cannot use scrims to accurately judge your teams advancement, development and placement, jump to another teams. That is the entire concept of a practice when you play sports. Heck many leagues actually limit the amount of practice you can actually have (NCAA Football is a good example).

If players don't bring their A-games to practice, you might as well leave since they are stunting the teams growth. We all like to have fun every now and again, that is what we use tf2lobby.com for, but as far a scrims we should be playing to improve and developing.

b4nny

Points: 1,850, Level: 26

Activity: 16.7%

I got good and "noticed" in TF2 by using the ESEA service. I think its worth paying to play in if you have a team that is dedicated and motivated to improve.

I still think that there will be a Season 7.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

I've played plenty of sports and even though you give your 100% during a practice, you still do not take it as seriously as an actual match/game. In a practice, winning or losing isn't important, only improving is. Also, I know most atheletes would agree with this, and prolly some people that compete in TF2, during a match there is something about it that makes me play @ 150% instead of just 100%, it isn't something I can turn on and off, i just preform way better in an actual match than in a practice/scrim.

This is all null though, because I still think that in ESEA you will still get more out of it even if you tried to scrim the same teams playing in ESEA. Not all of them scrim, and not all of them want to scrim lower teams.

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

RoGuE

Points: 853, Level: 16

Activity: 5.9%

Some people are able to motivate themselves to put in 150%, some people need an external motivation, its simple as that. If anything, you put in more effort into practice because you are more critical on yourself to improve. In a match, you learn to tune it all out and take it on one play at a time.

improperdancing

Points: 380, Level: 7

Activity: 21.2%

Honestly, all this talk of getting better in ESEA is dumb. No team is going to get better by playing sixteen games. Teams get better from constant scrimming and playing together at least three to four nights a week. Players get better from doing all of that and possibly adding in pugs, deathmatch, and ammomod as well.

Leagues by themselves do very little to make you better. In my mind, the purpose of a league is to "place" you. You see how much better you've gotten through scrimming by playing in a league and seeing how well you do compared to the competition.

As a team that often plays close to sixteen scrims a week, sixteen games over the course of eight is a totally inconsequential number, and pretending that teams are magically going to get better by playing in ESEA is the most ridiculous myth I've seen posted on these forums.

Teams are going to get better because they want to get better and put in the time, not by playing in ESEA or CEVO or UGC or TGL or TWL. They're going to get better by playing comparable or better competition night in and night out, not just twice a week for two months.

Joining ESEA certainly won't hurt your chances of getting better, but neither will joining any other league that has competition on a similar level as the one your team is currently on.

Just the same, joining ESEA isn't going to help you if you're a low team that's just going to get rolled 5-0 twice every week. It's the same reason why middish teams like my own don't scrim Complexity. We're not going to learn anything from a ten minute roll at their hands that we wouldn't have learned sitting around and punching ourselves in the dick repeatedly.

People are opposed to joining ESEA because you guys keep spreading these bullshit stories about how ESEA will magically make you a mid or mid+ team. It won't.

People should join ESEA because it's a fun league with a lot of good teams in it and it offers a solid experience for the price you pay. Doing well in ESEA is a symbol of all the hard work a team has put in outside of league play, and teams should join it to try to prove how far they've come.

Teams should join ESEA because losing the most prominent league would unarguably be detrimental for the community, but even then ESEA isn't for every team, and I don't think we should be pressuring teams that have no place in the league to join it.

However, I for one know that one of the most fun spectator TF2 experiences I've had since I started playing TF2 was watching this year's ESEA LAN in my team's mumble chat with all of my teammates and a few of our friends. And while I personally think that a lot of Invite players are being selfish and using their desire to go to a LAN as the only reason they still play (I don't buy that for a second) to blackmail us into supporting ESEA, it would still be a shame to lose the best spectator event this game presently has.

So should teams join ESEA? Yes, at least a lot of teams. If you're a low-mid team willing to put in the hours scrimming over the course of a season, Open is a good place for you to see the difference all that scrimming will make over two months. If you're a mid team, you'll undoubtedly find the best competition in ESEA, and if you're a competitor like I am you have no reason not to join. If you're a mid+ or higher team, you're already signed up.

But if you're a low team, or even the vast majority of low-mid teams that show up once or twice a week to play a match and then call it a day, or the ones who have just arrived on the low-mid plateau and still have a long way to go, ESEA isn't going to offer you anything other than an 0-16 record that is totally disheartening.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

I play badminton at a very high level. In badminton won I've 5 medals at arctic winter games, I've gotten a bronze medal at national francophone games, and I've been offered scholarships to play badminton at two of the highest ranked colleges in Canada.

Regardless of this practice was much more important for me in the long run than matches ever were.