improperdancing

Points: 380, Level: 7

Activity: 21.2%

I don't see how Gullywash is a copy of Granary at all. If you're saying it's a copy of Badlands I could kind of see that, but I would still disagree it's a copy on all points. Mid is very different from Badlands strategically. The second point is kind of similar in layout to the spire, but in actual execution the entire area is much less open and thus makes how and when you attack different. Last might look similar to Badlands last, but tactically it's completely different, encouraging flanks and using the water.

As far as Freight final goes, we haven't played it in league play yet, but I have scrimmed on it several times now and found pushing onto last to be a total chore. Without a sniper in play to get a crucial pick, it's that much harder to push onto a camping team, especially if they have a gun and a heavy.

As far as map design goes, like I said, I don't care if maps are similar in design or layout as long as they are fun. Follower is very similar to Granary, but it still encourages some different tactics, especially at mid (where snipers are very popular). You say Gullywash is similar to Badlands, and yet when my team plays it we approach it differently.

Similarities in layout and design are fine with me, because ultimately even the smallest changes in geometry and pathways are going to lead to differences in tactics and rollouts.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

The dynamics of CTF change dramatically when you have class based players all with different draw backs and so forth. Fundamentally, COD and so forth when everyone is moving at the same rate and your only changing weapons around to some degree, it could work, but the class limtis in current 6v6 format really get in the way. The question is not can CTF with with 6 players, it is the 6 players given the imposed class restrictions, it makes it difficult. The make up of the classes and limits are what is breaking CTF in competitive where it is simply not fun.

CTF works in class based shooters when you have more players availables, or 1 of each class, but as far as the 6v6 format, I have yet to see a map that can do this well enough where I would say, I'd rather play that as opposed to a Yukon/Follower/Freight. I just haven't seen it yet, the invade CTF type has possibilities, but nothing is jumping out just yet.

Tuku

Points: 426, Level: 8

Activity: 99.9%

Just make a TF2 version of Blood Gulch. Then put the flag on a pedestal instead of in a building. Play it 8v8 or Highlander. Problem solved.

brainpower4

Points: 2,689, Level: 33

Activity: 16.7%

What about forcing a faster pace by changing around the flag mechanic itself? A map with 2 flags per team would make it a fight for map control, rather than controlling a single flag room, and whichever team is able to actually reach the other teams base more successfully would win (there is no way 6 people could hold down 2 flag rooms).

Or maybe the flag could be put on a moving platform. That would make turtleing with stationary defenses less viable (sentries, spun up heavies, sticky traps) and add an interesting element of timing to pushes. If you wait for uber, you'll be able to kill their team easily, but the flag will have moved farther way so they will respawn before you can get out of the base.

What about a changing map along the lines of steel's final point? Capturing once will open up or close off different sections of the map is that the defending team has to make a call to either try to stop the flag before it can be capped, or to prepare their defenses in a new area.

Just because some classes aren't well balanced or fun for CTF, doesn't mean the map can't be well enjoyable. It just requires people to be creative and open up new play styles.

general_norris

Points: 8,973, Level: 65

Activity: 8.3%

I think that Turbine is fine. Camping is not a good idea in my experience as soon the other team breaks in and preventing them from scaping with an intel is almost imposible. I may not be the best but in my experience camping is not a good idea and you open yourself to a world of pain.

The intel room is a far worse place to defend than the middle part of the map. If you defend mid you can stop them from running with the intel.

CTF in TF2 is hard to play because it is really fast and you need a lot of tactics and using other classes other than cookie-cutter setup. It is hard because it is fast and you need more than just pushing and retreating but it is fun and refreshing compared to 5CP.

I have never felt we needed more players for such a small map as Turbine.

mutated

Points: 752, Level: 15

Activity: 0%

But then we run into the same fricking problem that we have with current 6v6 CTF: gimmicky methods of flag caps and DM being the only skill required to steamroll the other team.

brute-

Points: 1,773, Level: 25

Activity: 5.9%

I think reducing the return time on the flag wayyy down from where it is now would help speed up the play of the game alongside more open maps for flow with plenty of smaller health viles to encourage roaming.

jiggawhat

Points: 1,641, Level: 24

Activity: 18.2%

Would only encourage more spy grabs of the intel, heck, one player might even constantly suicide for it because there isn't enough time for a push

general_norris

Points: 8,973, Level: 65

Activity: 8.3%

No, that would encourage campig more because it is harder to get the intel and escape with it meaning you will rely more on sentries and ubers and that is not good.

brute-

Points: 1,773, Level: 25

Activity: 5.9%

i dont think the uber is going to impact defense as much anymore considering mappers could make the layout easier for soldiers and scouts to drop in and get out quick and sentries can be prevented from allowance to build near the intel room or something.

it was just those mechanics that i think enable the game mode in other games.

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