Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

I am reviewing the way I control the mouse from the bottom up. I've tried different grips/techniques but I can't quite settle so I would love the input from more experienced players.

Lets have a survey/discussion on how you control your mouse on the physical side regarding:
mouse grip
sensitivity (aka distance in inches that your mouse travels to do a 360 in game)
the 3 main joints' position and whether they pivot or not (we should just say fixed I guess, fixed as in the joint is fixed and doesnt pivot to move the mouse).
180 turn: when you have to spin around for "long angles", something like 90 or 180 degrees, do you just move the mouse dragging it through your mousepad for the entire distance, or do you lift it and kinda flick the same way you flick pages on a book?.

So, for example:

Grip: palm
Sensitivity: 6 inch/360
180 turn: drag
Wrist: sitting on the desk, pivots.
Elbow: sitting on armrest, fixed
Shoulder: fixed
Comments: This thread is awesome thanks for the input <3

Edit: not a razer commercial, but this should help if you are not sure what palm grip you use.
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

lol >< 26 views and no one posted? I guess my post was confusing.

The intention was to make a survey, but if people can't answer the questions of the survey you can't have results :(

dubel_07

Points: 3,305, Level: 37

Activity: 91.7%

Grip: Heel of my hand
Sensitivity: Whatever max in-game sensitivity is with 1.8 Mouse Acceleration (Something like a 2" 360)
180 turn: Flick
Wrist: Angled inwards
Elbow: Moves around
Shoulder: Moves around

I rely pretty much solely on luck to hit anything, making everything but medic extremely difficult.

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Grip: I have no idea. My palm kinda rests on the bottom of the mouse, my pinky and thumb are on the side of the mouse, providing grip, my index finger is on M1, and my middle finger is on M2.
Sensitivity: I'm about a 10" 360.
180 turn: Drag
Wrist: doesn't touch desk, moves around a lot.
Elbow: rarely moves, except on a rare occasions
Shoulder: never moves

I kinda have the edge of my desk on my forearm. I'm a pretty decent aimer, as in I don't just rely on luck to hit everything.
BTW: I play demo.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

I added a link on the OP to help you determine your grip. Steel sounds like palm grip, and dubel's sounds like claw grip but I am not sure.

I tried steel's style with the forearm sitting at the edge of the desk but my elbow was killing me after a while :D

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

Grip: palm (I play with a deathadder 3.5g @ 1800 DPI with base win sens, .022 yaw and .55 in game sens.)
Sensitivity: 16.4 inch/360
180 turn: drag
Wrist: raised above desk so does not drag, slides
Elbow: no armrest, moves with mouse. I use upper arm to push mouse
Shoulder: pivots with upper arm movement
Comments: I play medic, it should be noted, but I used this sens in my previous games as well (and I keep it consistent through all of the games I play). Ultimately, so long as you are comfortable, engaging different muscle groups and tendon groups (to avoid the problem of RSI) and notice no glaring issues with your setup, it should just be personal preference. In tf2, I dont need precise movement of my mouse, but in other fps games, I have the precision I need by virtue of being able to slow down my tracking manually (by moving slower) and precisely lining my shots up every time down to rote memory.

redterror

Points: 901, Level: 17

Activity: 8.3%

Honestly, you're overthinking the importance of this stuff. I bet you could find a pro that uses each grip style (oh wait - Razer already did that for you). The rule of thumb is to make sure you are relaxed/comfortable in whatever position you're in.

The big common thing among "better" players is their sensitivity - they all keep it fairly low. Try to aim for somewhere in the 9-12"/360 range, but recognize that if you're used to high sensitivity, you're not going to adjust overnight. Do it a little bit at a time and you'll have an easier transition.

There is also the factor of how much mouse surface you have to work with. If you're using a keyboard / mouse tray (like one that mounts under your desk), you're going to be limited by that (I am). But be creative and you can get yourself a few extra inches to work with.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

I am not over-thinking it, really. I am trying to fix my technique by trying different styles, so that later I will stay on what feels comfortable but is effective in terms of aim. For example, up until recently I assumed that players would flick their mouse instead of dragging it effectively putting the elbow joint into the movement.

I tried shadowpuppet's style but my shoulders were killing me after a while :\

Lutraphobia

Points: 2,314, Level: 31

Activity: 25.0%

Grip: Fingertip
180 turn: Flick
Wrist: sits on rest, fixed most of the time but will slide along the rest for some large movements.
Elbow: No rest, fixed
Shoulder: Fixed most of the time, moves occasionally for large movements.

Not exactly sure what my inches per 360 is. I use the default windows sensitivity, 3.0 on the in game slider and no mouse acceleration.

Plaincow

Points: 437, Level: 8

Activity: 33.3%

Grip: finger tip
Sensitivity: 8.3inch/360
180 turn: flick
Wrist: sitting on the desk, pivots.
Elbow: sitting on desk sometimes.
Shoulder: fixed
Comments: cool thread. i would like to see other peoples info also. i play pocket soldier btw.

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

hehehehe, it isnt for everyone, it should be noted however, that I am only using the big sweeping motions very rarely in actual game situations, I prefer to adjust the way I am looking by small amounts constantly.

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Oh, my grip is definitely a claw grip. I went to the site, and my. And perfectly fits the claw grip. Interestingly enough, I use palm most of the time, but when I play tf2, I guess my hand automatically adjusted to claw, since I play demo.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

Activity: 0%

Grip: Palm
Sensitivity: 6 inch for a 360
180 turn: Drag.
Wrist: Rests on mousepad. Wrist acts as pivot for small movements, middle of forearm acts as pivot for big movements.
Elbow: "Floating". Sometimes rested on my knee when I have my foot up on my speaker.
Shoulder: Fixed.
Comments: I play soldier 6v6, offclass to sniper occasionally.

__________________
Player coL.PYYYOUR left the game (Kicked by Console)
coL.carnage : just kicked him from col
coL.carnage : hate that guy

JeffShock

Points: 230, Level: 4

Activity: 8.3%

Grip: Palm
Sensitivity: ~6 inch/360 (Deathadder 3500 @ 1800dpi, default windows sens, 1.5 ingame sensitivity)
180 turn: flick
Wrist: resting on mousepad and pivoting until a large movement is necessary.
Elbow: resting on table to the right, pivots for large movements.
Shoulder: fixed, unless some ridiculous maneuver is necessary and i geek out.
Comments: I dropped my sensitivity from 2, and found my aiming improved a lot. Going to drop it again soon and see the result.

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Jeff, 6" is prObably a little bit too much onthe high side, unless you play medic, or possibly demo(probably not) if your playing scout, that is waaaay to high.

Capt Falcon

Points: 608, Level: 12

Activity: 58.3%

I play scout with about 3inches/360, fingertip grip with my salmosa.
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/.../fingertipgrip
I began because when I first got this mouse several years ago, I made a conscious decision (didn't know high sens could possibly be bad), to make it high so I would not strain my arm or mouse, just have my fingers move.

To each his own. Granted I wouldn't doubt if I decrease it my aim could get significantly better. I've taken a break from tf2 but yea.

At the insanely sensitive 3/360 I do believe making more inches/360 would increase the skillcap on my aim but I've improved a lot through DM so I doubt I've hit that yet.

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Yeah. I've playing a lot more direct"something" in MGE, and I can hit somebody very consistently if they're using a movement pattern that stays constant for more than 1 second. For ex: If they strafe left for one sec, I'm able to hit them. I have no idea how I could possibly hit anything with a 3" 360. So you move about 1 inch to turn 90 degrees to your right or left...

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

Well keep in mind the size of the muscles in your hand, they give for a lot of fine control. but yeah, I went from 3 to 6inch /360 and I am loving it. I considered for a moment increasing it even more, but that would put even more strain on my already beaten right hand/wrist/elbow etc :)

I would also love if people would keep posting in this thread :D

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

6 inch 360. That's a little bit on the high side, right? Well, it depends on what class you play. If you play medic, I don't think there's much of a problem having a pretty high sensitivity.

TMP

Points: 1,804, Level: 26

Activity: 16.7%

Grip: Relaxed Claw (Fingers aren't arched as much, knuckles farther back on the base of the mouse)
Sensitivity: 4.26 inch/360
180 turn: Honestly not sure, I drag through 360s though.
Wrist: Right half rested, left half elevated somewhat.
Elbow: Free, relatively stationary
Shoulder: Fixed
Comments: Pyro main.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

Honestly, it is not a linear scale. From what I've seen/read/heard, 6 inch is a pretty average sensitivity. 3 is high, and 12 is low. Notice the small gap between average and high, and the huge gap between average and high.

I play medic, but I am against people justifying using a high sensitivity just because you are a medic. The class is not stopping you from playing other classes in your free time, and you should honestly do it to keep your skills sharp and have a deeper understanding of the game through the other 3 main comp classes. That is just my opinion

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

well, some people like carnage (20 " 360), have like really really low sensitivities. Just wondering, Scholar, how well do you aim on other classes (esp. scout).
For medic, you don't need fine aim. The primary skills for a medic are to stay alive, and heal your teammates. Hitting people with the heal beam is not that hard to do, and having high sensitivity allows you to turn around a lot easier. Think about playing medic with a 20" 360.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

With soldier I am doing ok, with scouts I do poorly :D. The technique used to aim as a scout is much different from the one used as soldier, I guess soldier just makes more sense in my head.

And again, don't get boxed into a number, what matters the most is that you are able to perform well in game regardless of the actual sensitivity. If you can do a 180 in a fraction of a second and respond well to a threat that is behind you, who cares if you use 20inch /360 or 6inch /360.

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

I think that for soldiers, a lot of sensitivities are ok. Same goes for demoman and medic. But scout, low low low sensitivity.

Also, btw, if your still caring about your grip/sensitivity. Theoretically, palm would probably be the best for medic, but it doesn't really matter, honestly. Whatever feels most comfortable is best.
Honestly, I'd get a slightly lower sensitivity, since low sensitivities work for most classes, while high ones work only for some classes.

Atavax

Points: 1,714, Level: 25

Activity: 8.3%

so i've basically been using http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm to try to adjust my sensitivity on my deathAdder. But it seems my mouse's sensitivity is always higher then what it is claiming it is. at 900 dpi, 1 ingame sensitivity, 1 windows modifier and default m_yaw, i'm getting around 16 inches per 360 instead of the 18.2. and When i adjust windows modifier to 0.5 instead of the 36.4 inches per 360 i should be getting, i get something close to 20inches per 360. The only thing i could think of that might be interfering would be the razer driver customization where there's a sensitivity setting independent of the dpi setting where i have it set to 10, which is the max and i figured default, but i can't find a setting where the mouse is doing anywhere near close to the 360 it should be doing with a modifier of .5 from windows while also doing close to what it should be doing with a modifier of 1 from windows. Because i'm messing around with 360's between 18 and 30 inches, physically measuring the 360 isn't really going to be consistent and precise, so i feel like i really need to understand exactly whats effecting my sensitivity and how.

mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

Activity: 8.3%

that's a bit of a myth, there are a lot of good players who have used high sensitivities, like platinum or harbleu, and others who have used REALLY low ones, like justin

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Mustard, how high is a high sensitivity?

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

I've been using one of those 12 inch rules and it is very reliable. You gain nothing by having exactly 8" over having 8.123". As long as the numbers on software and hardware remain consistent, your mouse movement will be consistent as well. Plus you are working with high numbers 18-30, the bigger the number is, the less significant small errors are.

So IMO just use a ruler and don't use the windows program thingy you were using before

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

Activity: 8.3%

Grip: palm
Sensitivity: 10 inch/360
180 turn: keyboard button/alias handles this, took some tweaking
Wrist: On the desk/bottom of the pad normally for pivot
Elbow: hanging in space
Shoulder: fixed
Comments: Same grip I have used for twenty years honestly, not much change, Due to some nerve damage from playing Lacrosse I have very little feeling in the ring/pinky fingers of my right hand so anything but a palm style grip would make me have no idea where the mouse really is in my hand and is rather unsettling.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

20 years????? I am jelly. By that time I will have carpian tunnel and/or arthritis