mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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the roundtables are what I'm interested in

the interview is a bad example, it's a special series where every esea-I team was interviewed pre-season and asked about esea rules and the like, if it were an individual player interview it would be expected to be more meaty

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

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I have been checking out his channel and although he has many of the videos and he is awesome for that, he doesn't have them all. Too bad all that great content will be lost.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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I haven't written any articles... but yes, more stuff like the roundtable articles would be awesome.

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mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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basically:

in the context of a roundtable article, the players can talk about themselves a bit more and how their playstyles relate to the state of the game and stuff (as well as things like unlocks or w/e)

in the context of an individual interview, they should talk about their team a bit more

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

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OK, so talk about how to get better, what to do in situations, are left to roundtables.
Talk about their own team is left to individual interviews or an interview of an entire team.

Just wondering, who would you guys really like to see an interview of?

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

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The primary focus of the round table style interviews is to illustrate the contrast in play styles, and why things are done the way they are for that team and try to provoke thought amonst the readers to think about their own specific play styles and how they fit in.

Some I would enjoy reading:

1. Play Callers - How there team apporaches certain scenarios, map specifics for some of the newer maps might be interesting.
2. Medics - Specific heal orders an how they work with their teams in scenarios
3. Utilities - Details of how they interact with the team (appears slightly different from observation compared to a couple of seasons ago

Things like that, A fun series for eXtv or something might be to find a way to review videos with invite players on-line in a group, not sure you have the performance, but after the fact let the players review highlights of why something worked or didn't, a series on that would be pretty fun with the IM+ crowd.

infinite-

Points: 1,678, Level: 24

Activity: 33.3%

It's all a matter of perspective and really comes down to a single question.

Do the competitive "serious" 6s players who frequent the NATF2 forums want their beloved format to grow or slowly die?

I they want it to grow, they need to partner with sites like CommFT, TWL, UGC and work with them to bring in new players. This means being more open-minded and less arrogant about ones skill and how good someone must be to be taken seriously or participate within the community. If they want it to slowly die, keep on fragmenting the community and treating new players like trash. It won't take long.

I see a lot of hate and elitism when leagues like TWL, UGC, and the site COMMFT are mentioned. The reality is, most of the "new" players to competitive TF2 start at these leagues and then branch out to more "serious" pay-to-play leagues like ESEA and CEVO. UGC's season starts January 23rd and we already have over 200 teams signed up. Approximately 100 of these teams are BRAND NEW to competitive TF2. Two weeks ago we had 600 players in our UGC Highlander PUG group. Now, we have over 1100.

If the competitive 6s community were smart, they would partner with us, identify the players who want to take their game to another level and help them learn how to get involved with 6s. Instead of creating a small niche' of elite players who make fun of new players, help us all grow this community until it thrives. I identify the community as everyone, COMMFT, NATF2, ESEA, CEVO, 6s players, highlander players, 7s players, ultduo players, etc etc.

Whoever mentioned this earlier is right, the competitive 6s community is only a TINY fragment of the entire TF2 population. I fear if things continue the way they are, that fragment will get smaller and smaller until there is nothing left.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

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That is such a great statement and I hope people do take note. If they want their small elite circle jerk of skill they can still have it. No one is going to take that away from players as long as we have ESEA (leagues) and servers and mumble and IRC and all the things that make matches and scrims and discussions possible.

But bringing in and keeping newer players will keep the scene alive. In turn, that would bring in more tournaments or maybe at least we get to keep the ones we have. Who knows, they might even increase the prize pools.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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If you bothered to actually go to the forums you mentioned, you'd see there's a difference between a "new player" and "CommFT/UGC/whatever".

Every time a brand new sixes player would post a looking thread, there would be an experienced player saying something along the lines of "this person is dedicated, would be a good pickup".

The reason the average NATF2 regular looks down on CommFT/UGC/whatever is because of the attitude you're displaying right now: a sort of "oh they think they're so good what a bunch of jerks".

Ironically, I see more new people here on CommFT talking shit to each other than I see the ESEA/NATF2 crowd talk shit about other leagues/communities.

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steelfirez

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hm? where? I only saw Nana... or bananarepublic(same people).

infinite-

Points: 1,678, Level: 24

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Zigster:
This is the kind of attitude I am talking about. Which came first?

I do read the natf2.com forums. There is a lot of great stuff on there - no doubt and I am not saying there is not. But lets be honest here - as you mention, most of the people on that forum look down upon all other leagues (the ones with mostly new players) except the one they play in.

That's the kind of counter-productive attitude which negatively affects the community.

I do not doubt that many people in our league -not all- feel this way towards the highly competitive 6s community. It's sorta why I am posting this. Maybe we can chat sometime about UGC's experiences with competitive/invite level 6s players trolling our league. I've got a couple great examples of why many of us feel this way.

speedygeek

Points: 175, Level: 3

Activity: 8.3%

... Seriously?

The competitive 6s community is incredibly unfriendly to new 6s players than what you'd think. Go browse the recruiting forums on natf2 or commft. A really large portion of the really brand new players' LFT posts go either ignored completely or have people posting troll replies.

I heard from grand total of two teams, and one turned out to be just a troll. At least the other team let me try out.

Not to mention -- how many of those players actually get picked up? Certainly not 100%.

I'm not saying that doesn't happen elsewhere. But in highlander right now, tons of new teams are being formed and there are tons of HL teams looking for players or players forming new teams. So brand new players actually do get picked up.

In 6s? Nowhere nearly as much.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

wait was that post aimed at me?

No dude I am cool. Every good player I have ran into has been nice to me, people in MGE offer advice sometimes without me even asking and there is sooo much information available (for those who look for it) for players to read and get to understand the game better.

I was rather saying, if anyone had a mindset like that is kinda pointless because they will always have their space. It is just the way communities are.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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Highlander is more appealing to pubbers because they can play their favourite class, and as such there are more highlander players/teams to go around.

I've had an idea for awhile that I would like to post here and on NATF2, where everyone (probably way too optimistic) takes one or two pubbers under their wing, and shows them the ropes of competitive TF2. If most players mentor one or two people, we could double the size of the community, and considering the skill difference between the average pub star and the average low sixes players, even "low" players could take on mentees, as they'll most likely know the basics of 6v6.

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mustardoverlord

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it's not that people from natf2 think highlander leagues like ugc and that lower-level players are a joke, it's that they think non-esea 6s leagues are a joke from an organizational standpoint. they have confusing websites, not a lot of teams, no stvs, no stats, and barely ANY presence from higher-level players except for offclassing troll teams

a lot of people hate esea for its pay-to-play model, and I can understand that. however, it's waaay better than every other league in like every other respect. speaking from personal experience, I played esea in my very first season as competitive, and see no reason why other new teams shouldn't do the same. that way we can maybe get more lans and sponsors, not to mention a main division

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

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Mustard, unluckily, as it always does, it boils down to the money. Killing can get servers, stv's, cash prizes, LANs, and high level people because of the money. Most people playing are not willing( or able) to shell out the cash if they are just starting out. As an ugc/twl/ whatever admin, are you truly willing to spend 15+(probably more) hours per week just to help the tf2 community? Not to mention the extra cash it would take to get stv's, servers, etc.
As for the comment that UGC/TWL have less teams?
What? ESEA Open = 44 teams. ESEA IM = 16 teams ESEA Invite = 8 teams. 44 + 16 + 8<200.
UGC/TWL do have a very important place in the ESEA league's future. In most games, players are funneled like this into comp.

MASS OF PUB players --------> Casual Clan play/lobbies ----------->Some fun community Leagues ---------------> Serious Pay to Play leagues.
ESEA is the serious pay to play league. UGC is the fun community league. TF2 lobby fulfills the casual clan play/lobbies. At each level, there are less and less people. Now, however, TF2 has more than enough of the first stage. However, just getting to lobbies is a hard step. Let's quote some comments I've heard on pubs.
This is largely due to the TF2 community, who quite frankly, are poisonous to newcomers. Yes, I have met a few nice people who've helped me in MGE, but TF2lobby? NATF2? Not exactly helpful. And what about that Free to Play business. "What a newb F2P.""I love owning F2p'ers" That's not exactly the image of a helpful community.

Sigma

Points: 7,327, Level: 59

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I don't think it's possible to do anything about the low-skill-but-better-than-newbies types that serve to give people their first impression of competitive tf2. There will always be angry nerds out there yelling at their medics in lobbies and creating bad stereotypes about 6s players, which is certainly not indicative of how the majority of serious players behave.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

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Regardless of the game, or life for that matter, rarely will you find the occasion people that are absolute jerks, again it's not the majority of the 6v6 community.

The absolute best thing that can be done, and frankly extremely difficult to players with time, is to take some of the higher level players from Invite/IM and have them function as a team manager and mentor to a team of their choice, and whichever team gets the highest prize, the Manager gets part of the prize as well as the team. Something like that season in and out would do good to increase the skill level of many of the teams at the lower level. I just don't see it happening at the moment.

Scholar

Points: 661, Level: 13

Activity: 25.0%

This is sort of a transition year for tf2, after the game became a lot more popular and a stream of people learned about competitive formats and wanted to become part of it. I think that with time the situation will get better. For now, natf2 seems to be a cool place to hang out

steelfirez

Points: 798, Level: 15

Activity: 99.6%

Just wondering, would the recent articles on tyrone and ScorpioUprising be the articles you guys are looking for?