Cash50

Points: 2,238, Level: 30

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A few of us recently had a meeting with Torbull, the CEO of ESEA. For those that don't know what ESEA is it is TF2s only pay-to-play league which has 3 (4 next season?) divisions. The new pug mod that was coded and produced by Cinq was released last week. The meeting that took place last night was to get more TF2 players to pug using ESEA servers. Why? becuase ESEA wants to attract more people to pugging on the mod because right now PUGS are inactive in the world of TF2. CSS/1.6 pugs are huge and Torbull wants TF2 to be that way as well.

Why does this matter? It matters because ESEA is going to be having a couple events in the near future that will be attracting lower level players to pug using the ESEA Client. Some of those events may be:

PUG nights with TF2 Celebrities (hint hint CARNAGE)
prizes for the top puggers (headsets, video cards, quivers, esea points)
And more.

We would like to encourage players to give the PUG Mod a try in the coming weeks. ESEA has decided to give certain people the power to police the servers so there will be admins in the pugs so trolling will not be tolerated. ESEA wants to get more players into competitve TF2 and this is the first step. We will be displaying some more information as it becomes available.

If you have any questions, please ask them here or feel free to add me on steam.

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thelegendof50
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HighAllegiant

Points: 1,028, Level: 18

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Does it require that we have a paid membership in esea?

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Cash50

Points: 2,238, Level: 30

Activity: 25.0%

I believe it does, but they will be handing out Freemium (free premium) to anyone who would like to try it. This is basically a turn key operation. If you get some for free and like it, then to keep it you pay. I think.

Players who have Freemium can NOT win prizes and or qualify for any special drawings or prizes.

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mchedlo_213

Points: 323, Level: 6

Activity: 0%

i have the same question,i hav eaccount there but it's not paid so i still can participate ??

Cash50

Points: 2,238, Level: 30

Activity: 25.0%

I don't have the details yet, but ESEA will give out free premium once this gets off the ground.

(DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT)

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thelegendof50
http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/thelegendof50

Aristotle

Points: 1,683, Level: 24

Activity: 0%

Did someone actually put you in charge of something Mr. cash?

It's the end of the world.....




























as we know it

it's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine...

^catchy song, totally wasn't talking about you running anything ; )

Deathanchor

Points: 1,231, Level: 20

Activity: 8.3%

What is this nonsense. I see no difference in the ESEA TF2 pug system.

Cash50

Points: 2,238, Level: 30

Activity: 25.0%

what do you mean?????

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thelegendof50
http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/thelegendof50

Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

Activity: 41.7%

A pay to play PUG system -- if that's what it ends up being -- seems doomed to fail. With most 6s scrims going through IRC and Highlander by word of mouth and friend list invites, and with TF2 Lobby still an option for fast, low-level PUGS, I can't see much of the community shelling out dough to pug in some other way.

Any ETA on final details?

Cash50

Points: 2,238, Level: 30

Activity: 25.0%

Free, I don't think you know that about 85% of competitive TF2 players play ESEA which requires premium. They are just trying to get more people to use their premium for pugs and not just league matches.

We are going to start small and work our way up to competing against TF2Lobby. We are organizing right now. I would expect more details next week or the week after.

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Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

Activity: 8.3%

85% of NA competitive TF2 players do not play ESEA. If I had to guess, it's more like 35-50%. Either way, ESEA's pugs don't offer anything worth paying for to those who don't already have premium. Which is good, after all, since ESEA having a monopoly on both high level league play and pugs while charging money for both would not be good for the scene.

And, let's be clear, ESEA's services are not the key to getting low level players into competitive TF2. The efforts of community sites with mentor programs, community outreach events, etc are what low level players give two hoots about. The Highlander tournaments and leagues make more sense to low level players, fresh from the pubs, than the rigid 6v6 class structure. They see right through a pay-to-play website trying to get them to pug 6v6 with an offer of "Freemium" that comes with reduced features and leads to paying for Premium.

One thing that Torbull has never properly grasped is that the TF2 community, and the people who play TF2, are not at all like those who play either CS. Yet, he still continues to try the same tactics with TF2 players that he uses to attract CS kiddies to his overpriced services. Let us remember how lpkane handles community outcry and how ESEA threatens to pull the plug without profitability. It all revolves around money at ESEA and ESEA's current pug drive is nothing new.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

Jinn's hatred for ESEA continues even though he isn't with cevo anymore.

Is there any other 6s league even going on right now? I have seen nothing about cevo or twl. So I would say, atm, 100% of the tf2 competitive community (for 6v6) is in ESEA. I think new players will really like esea. I know I really enjoyed it compared to other leagues. It is very organized, and it is really nice to have things automated (like schedules) and not have to worry about if your server has the right configs ect ect. I know a team that I helped out, and they are pretty new to competitive. They seem to be enjoying esea. If you can get passed the 7/month, it really is a nice league to play in.

It is other leagues fault for not being able to compete with ESEA. If CEVO/TWL could provide stats and automatic stv uploads, they would be just as good, but they can't even do that.

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1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

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I think I have good points and you didn't respond to any of them. You have good points as well, though.

So I guess that means...I hate ESEA. And, if my points amount to hatred of ESEA, your points must amount to blind love of ESEA. I see how this all works.

lyse242

Points: 1,250, Level: 20

Activity: 8.3%

How is it blind love if he has good points?

Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

Activity: 8.3%

That's the point...

And if I have good points, how is it hatred?

Let's be clear. Defiance unreasonably dogs me when I point out problems with ESEA. I respond now with my own unreasonable claim (that he has blind love for ESEA) to mock him saying that I simply hate ESEA.

He loves to do this, and has done it for many many months now, and so I might as well join in.

Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

Activity: 41.7%

CEVO is readying another season and TWL is running strong. ESEA is a great league, but they aren't necessarily the end-all-be-all of competitive TF2. So, no, 100% of the competitive TF2 community is not in ESEA (not to mention UGC 6v6).

No one on CommFT has anything against ESEA or any league (or any community site or organization). Please stop calling spook when there's nothing there.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

Activity: 0%

TF2 celebrities.


...I thought that was funny.

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dubel_07

Points: 3,305, Level: 37

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CEVO 6v6 is starting shortly, rest assured. You can still register for the website, though Season 8 has not yet been activated on the website. I'll talk to some people and see if I can get registration going for next week.

frozun

Points: 1,630, Level: 24

Activity: 0%

Is there any pugs for low-mid players? Or is it just strictly super high levels? Just wondering.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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I've seen a fair amount of low/mid players join up on tf2.pug.na.

(Though they might claim they are at a higher skill level..)

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mrslin

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ESEA pugs are silly, but they could be the next mid level pug system until pubcomp.com comes out. Pugna is too high level, tf2lobby is too low for the most part. ESEA requires you to pay premium which weeds new players out, while not having the captain system of pugna (Er actually I don't know what system ESEA pugs use)

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Guide to Getting Started in Competitive 6v6 TF2
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Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

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Yea I am really excited about PubComp.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

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Calling spook? What does that even mean? I don't remember saying CommFT has anything against esea or any other league, but alright. And read my post again, I said ATM. Meaning, I don't think there are any other leagues currently going right now.

ESEA is a lot more stable than the other leagues. You can usually guess how much down time they are going to have between the end of playoffs and when the season is going to start. My point was that I am not sure at all when cevo/twl are going to be starting, because the only posts I've seen have been them looking for admins. So I don't know what is wrong with ESEA for new players. I know new players that play in ESEA, and seem to enjoy it. As more players enter the league, there will be less higher up teams stomping lower teams. As we will eventually get a main division.

I don't think the pug system is trying to get a bunch more premium users, I think it is just trying to get a lot of the users who already have premium to actually use the pug servers they have running right now.

__________________
1:22 AM - caidh: fuck why am i still up
1:22 AM - defiance: lets pub
1:23 AM - caidh: shit no
1:23 AM - defiance: i was sleepy
1:23 AM - defiance: but i took a huge shit
1:23 AM - defiance: go try it

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

Activity: 8.3%

I think it's safe to say more premium users is a goal of ESEA as it is part of their business model. But I do agree they want to try to get existing users using the system more.

For participating teams, if they migrated from IRC for Pugs and even Scrims it would be a lot better in the long run. Using the Scrim Mod as well as Pug would be a good thing and easier to get involved with.

To Jinn's point, I am inclined to agree that new players buying premium and hitting Pugs on ESEA would likely be more of a detriment at the moment, since the player base in TF2 has a strong tendency to be asses to each other, especially if someone is new. So there is still a strong need for content geared to the completely new to TF2/TF2Comp scenes online which CommFT/MGE/etc.. all seem to fill to varying degrees.

I don't believe ESEA is the end all be all of TF2 Competition but I don't believe ESEA is purporting itself to be the end all be all.

dubel_07

Points: 3,305, Level: 37

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Are you really asking that?
It has a variety of meanings; one of which would be accusing somebody of being a spy a la the Cold War. He's telling you to chill out.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

Activity: 8.3%

Spook is also used as a VERY racially derogatory term in it's most common use I have ever heard, so please be careful throwing the term around.

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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I wish I got a dollar every time Tom Clancy used the word "ex-spook" in his books.

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Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

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Spook refers specifically to this:

In other words, jinn's supposed hatred for ESEA doesn't exist. It's a phantom, something you've concocted. Hamlet's dad.

While I can't speak for everyone here, I strongly doubt that CommFT folk so much as dislike ESEA--it's a strong league that contributes to the competitive TF2 community. But Jinn's point--that this ESEA pug drive sounds an awful lot like an attempt to make a few more bucks off TF2 players and that it isn't actually going to help new players at all--rings awfully true. Here's where the TF2 community greatly differs from CS and other FPS communities: it's not shelling out dough, especially now that TF2 is free to play. TF2 lobby is free, PubComp looks like it will be free, TWL and CEVO and UGC are free. The CommFT mentor program is free. Some parts of MGE are free. TF2pug.na is free.

A pug system that requires a paid membership--even if it doles out "freemiums"--is going head to head with tons of free outreach of varying qualities. Why divide the community into the haves and have nots if not to make a buck? Why compete against TF2 lobby, as Cash stated, instead of working with them?

Ladies and gents, the last thing the TF2 community needs is another set of competing interests. If ESEA is dead set on helping new players--and the scene at large--the PUG mod should be free, period.

Of course, all of this is null and void so far. We don't know what ESEA will actually do. So, yes, Defiance, dubel is right. Relax.

It wasn't thrown around. It was used in context. Please don't jump at shadows; that's the entire point of the post.

Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

Activity: 8.3%

While I think the above is largely true as of late, I think the main issue under discussion is that it's not clear whether or not the PUG situation should also be dominated by ESEA.

And, if the below is the case, then there's no issue...

But, as others have mentioned, it's unlikely that ESEA's goal is not to get more paying users.

YanCanCook

Points: 509, Level: 10

Activity: 41.7%

ESEA pugs are cool but it would be even cooler if we had ESEA-O pugs, ESEA-IM pugs and ESEA-I pugs... so that skill is not too much different, games would be pretty even and much more fun.

I played in a few ESEA pugs but we had some CS guys and one of them was using a xbox controller LOL