shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

Well, we got new stuffs, what does everyone think of the balance and fairness of the items? Any potential bannable ones? I dont like the scout pepper gun already, but I will need to get one and check it out first.

other thoughts?

TWL has banned the items pending admin review.

DrHeadcrab

Points: 319, Level: 6

Activity: 16.7%

I feel like the Scout pack is most likely to get banned, but you never know. I'd like to play a couple games with these items before deciding on eliminating them.
Of course, for the current season, they should be out of the question

theduderman

Points: 1,865, Level: 26

Activity: 8.3%

This would be a GREAT time for NATF2 (TWL or CEVO or something) to do their first Experimental Ordinance Cup like what ETF2L did earlier this month.

http://etf2l.org/2010/09/14/return-o...rdnance-cup-1/

This would be a great opportunity to see how the weapons play out in game.

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

pyro Powerjack should be banned imo, huge buff (+25% damage +75% hp restored on kill) but no buff.

TMP

Points: 1,804, Level: 26

Activity: 16.7%

You mean debuff?

(For one, its 75 hp)

I think the debuff is not being able to use the axtinguisher. I doubt that the extra 25% on the powerjack will be important, or the HP gain, simply because it is indeed a melee weapon, unless it affects all your weapons (Which I don't think it does? It may, but I'm not certain).

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

played a pug with unlocks. Milk clear OP

cco

Points: 2,154, Level: 29

Activity: 8.3%

My thoughts.

Scout Pack, not OP for Pubs, but incredibly OP for 6v6, banned.

Black Box: I can see some Roamers using this, though it's pretty situational.

Battalion's Backup: Probably not used, although maybe a Soldier might use it as a sort of psuedo-uber. Popping Backup, and then once the situation gets too hot, Uber can be popped.

Degreaser: Can't say much, doesn't strike me as that useful.

Powerjack: Probably banned for not having a downside, won't change the game that much anyways.

Sydney Sleeper: I can see this becoming a major alternative to the Sniper Rifle, just tag somebody and move on to the next, let your team do the work.

Danger Shield: Maybe a useful item. Depends on how far up you play your sniper. Also, with buffing this would let the Sniper take a headshot as well as a body shot. Before he has to run away from the other sniper.

Bushwhacka: Probably not going to see too much use, unless paired with Jarate to stop Scouts.

Eternal Reward: Way too UP to be of use.

DrHeadcrab

Points: 319, Level: 6

Activity: 16.7%

The new buff banner seems very good to use in conjunction with an uber in a major push, as well as defending last points when an enemy pushes in.
I just wonder if the radius of the buff/protect effect is smaller or larger or the same than the buff banner.

mrslin

Points: 9,629, Level: 67

Activity: 0%

Thoughts in terms of comp viability:

Soldier - Overall is useless and will have no effect on comp gameplay
Tank Buster - useless
Black box - after being corrected, seems interesting.
Battalion's Backup - seems about as useful as the buff banner (aka not)

Scout - Overall is overpowered if one of your team's scouts goes it purely for support. The actual +25 health isn't that bad though.
The Special Delivery - OP
Mad Milk - OP (although only 1 scout would go mad milk)
Shortstop - after being corrected, it's meh.
The Holy Mackeral - Fucking awesome

Pyro - Overall is very balanced
The Gas Jockey's Gear - balanced
Degreaser - balanced, and there's no reason not to use it
Powerjack - balanced. the axetinguisher is practically a 1 shot kill atm

Sniper - We will need to see long term how the sydney sleeper affects gameplay
The Croc-O-Style Kit - balanced
Shield - balanced
Bushwacka - balanced, no reason not to use it. glad valve tried to fix the sniper melee after their failed tribalman's shiv
Sydney Sleeper - hard to say. i'm leaning towards saying this is balanced because a sniper who can headshot with the normal rifle is so deadly, but then again this weapon just turns the sniper into a bodyshotting fiend and will definitely annoy other players. we'll see how it works out

Spy - Overall is balanced and creative
Saharan Spy - balanced. I really like this idea.
Your Eternal Reward - balanced, but it won't see too much use except for trolling. you just have to be extra sneaky
L'etranger - balanced. nice idea.



I think this is a great update. The only one that isn't really balanced is the scout, but I think it will be good for pubs. It will probably have to be banned in 6v6 play though.

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The Scout Essentials

DrHeadcrab

Points: 319, Level: 6

Activity: 16.7%

The L'Etranger actually seemed a little underpowered to me. The only up side is a little bit more cloak regen on hit, but the hit itself does less damage. I think it's mostly for Spies who would just fire a few shots and uses the regenerated cloak to run run run awayyyy

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

The new medic weapon looks interesting. up to 20% of your stored uber restored on spawn, but -10 health. This will fuck with medic's minds when trying to count uber, but I dont know how useful it is... I will need to use it or see it used to know, but I dont know anyone who has it yet.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

To be overly polite... This update is a load of shit.

I was hoping for some interesting non-diablo/warcraft type gameplay changes.

Very shitty job overall and all items should be permanantly banned. I'd be much happier if they went into optimizing the game rather than adding random crap.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

Activity: 8.3%

the -10hp makes you die more often, which is never worth saving any amount of uber (even 100%)

that's all there is to it

it sucks. hard.

also Slin, the black box is +15 hp ON HIT so you can splash groups to heal fairly large amounts...I'm still not decided on that one

my biggest beef with the new items is that the rifle requires you to scope up and charge to get the jarate effect. why would I not just headshot someone? once again the game is designed for bad players to stay bad and get away with it. on the plus side, players have to melt their huntsmen to craft it.

I'd be really interested to see how the new banner pairs with a kritz medic (like how the buff banner is suited to ubers), because it's ridiculously easy to charge (I rj'd up to take fall damage like 5 times to charge it, self damage from rockets isn't included in that).

The degreaser is cool as hell, and it's really nice to see the GRU were added (but why the hell are they ONLY random drops? good luck seeing them allowed in comp play with that...).

ManBearPig

Points: 3,521, Level: 39

Activity: 8.3%

I'm guessing none of you saw the fucking Gloves of Running Urgently.

YEAR SUPPLY OF GOOD MEAT

Points: 696, Level: 13

Activity: 0%

Agreed. Those gloves are possibly the biggest game-changer for several reasons. Having fortunately played one a lobby with a competent heavy; the GRU allows the heavy to trot along at a surprisingly effective pace and remain in the heat of action, as well as retreat somewhat more effectively if the medic goes down.

The bad side, when the medic goes down, you're screwed.

Sadly, I agree that it'll most likely be banned because its a random drop, and because everyone hates the heavy.

Fall-From-Grace

Points: 329, Level: 6

Activity: 3.0%

yyyyyessssss

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

People hate the heavy?? I think no.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

Activity: 8.3%

Na-ta-scha.

chipbuster

Points: 2,622, Level: 33

Activity: 9.1%

I heard from someone that the black box is actually +15HP on hit. That changes the dynamic significantly and could make that a borderline decent weapon (kinda like the DH when it minicritted people who were standing on the ground).

Other than that, this game looks a bit more like a cross of borderlands and katamari damacy every time they update it. I'll have to play the polycount for a while before I decide whether I like it or not.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

Ya but the class as a whole isn't hated.

Craftyman

Points: 2,491, Level: 32

Activity: 58.3%

I have used the Black Box and can confirm that it is +15 hp on ANY hit and splashing multiple people will multiply the effect. I like it but I'm still not sure it'll replace the good ol' rocket launcher.

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general_norris

Points: 8,973, Level: 65

Activity: 8.3%

The GRU at last! We have been waiting for that for, how much now?

My thoughts:
Soldier:
The Black Box: While +15 HP on hit doesn't seem much and I at first thought it was heavily underpowered but thanks to splash damage it can be pretty good in spam fights and not bad in 1v1 either. We should test this weapon first.

Batallion Backup: Cool item. May prove useful because a defensive buff can be used while retreating if you lose a point while hitting harder is usually not as good at that point.

Pack Bonus: Useless.

Scout

Seems awfully overpowered for 6v6 but I have not tested the items. Is the Shortstop identical to the Pistol but with slowdown? Given that it says "Pepperbox" perhaps it just has one shot or something.

The fish is simply awesome, good job!


Pyro

Pretty good balanced pack.

The Degreaser only changes afterburn, something not really important for comp while the extra switch speed will mean that you can kill whoever gets too close to you before they can shoot you. Very skillful and interesting.

The PowerJack doesn't look as good as the Axtinguisier right now but I haven't tried it, could be pretty cool, specially if you get that +75 health on top of what you already have.

Sniper

The shield will be useful for those Snipers who think that the SMG doesn't kill fast enough and who think Jarate is too risky. Good, balanced unlock.

The Buswacka is fun but I don't think it will be particularly useful for 6V6.

The rifle looks crappy but may have some powerful uses. Infinite range Jarate can stop pushes in say, Gravelpit and thanks to it's effect you will not fear Scouts as much since you can two-shot them.

SPY

This set is subtle but it's here. The idea seems to be to jump on someone, and gain his disguise. A kill provides you with a lot of metal and the insta-disguise gives you a couple of seconds while the players slams his keyboard to talk. You can kill someone else meanwhile or shoot a couple of bullets to repeat it again.

I don't think this will make the Spy viable but it gets closer each day =D


The new Medic Ubersaw seems useful. 10 Less HP is not as much as it seems, after all, the Medic is still two-shotted with those extra 10HP. I think it will see a lot of play in certain moments of the game.


I like this update so far, it's very subtle ,not as obvious as previous ones but gives us a lot new tools to play with. Comp is getting more intersting.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

Activity: 8.3%

Would you not agree that the vita-saw makes it easier to die (in general) and 'discourages dying less'?

Doesn't that seem like a bad idea all around?

It's also an entirely passive effect. You don't have to do anything except die to see it working its wonders.

Sigma

Points: 7,327, Level: 59

Activity: 16.7%

I wouldn't write off the vita-saw so quickly. I put a post on MGE about it (http://http://mgepremium.com/forums/topic/vita-saw) in which Byte also agreed it has merit.

The basic idea is that it's very rare to survive with <10hp (happens maybe 1/15-20 lives), and is comparatively common to lose a position or die because you're >80% charge, but you're not actually able to pop (average ubers/life is about 1.2, more when it's going well, less when it's going poorly... so this means almost every uber will be faster, especially when you're losing, which is when you need it). Additionally, it supports the "baiting" medic style where you tempt the enemy team into focusing you in order to create a health advantage on your fragging classes to win a push. Furthermore, there are situations where you are highly likely to die before uber (mid fights) where you can use this to either press your advantage, or save your last (even against a wipe on mid, potentially).

It also gives you a buff if you get known for using it. You have the option of switching and just generally making your uber difficult to predict.

I also look forward to planning out kritzes with this -- the charge doesn't carry over if you switch mediguns while dead, but you could, for example, run a kritz on mid, play aggressive and die in order to win, then have a kritz 25s after your next spawn (crazy fast).

Schizoid

Points: 1,826, Level: 26

Activity: 0%

For people wondering how the Shortstop works, it has a 4 shot clip that shoots a little faster than the Scattergun. The slowdown really isn't that noticeable or helpful. I think it's a fairly well balanced sidegrade overall. (Replaces Primary)

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

I agree with Sigma entirely. The Vita-Saw brings a degree of complexity to the game, a sense of unpredictability to the medic and his team. It gives a team more options and will most definitely keep both teams on their feet at all times. I see no reason why it is overpowered and I certainly cannot justify banning the weapon.

This is a slight buff to the medic and may make other teams think about when they want to kill the opponent medic, changes up how you mask and fake ubers. This is exactly the kind of new item that I think the medic needed, that the medic has been waiting for since his last update. I want to get one and try it out!

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

Activity: 8.3%

I suppose it's always possible it has some use. I'm judging it without having used it because I can't craft it cheaply and I'm sure as hell not gonna pay for it :(

Maybe post some demos when you try it out?

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

Activity: 0%

I think people are underestimating the Battalion's Backup.

As a pocket, you'll get the bar filled in no time. Pop that + uber...then you can probably keep the uber on the pocket for the duration of the uber while all your teammates take 35% less damage. :/

Of course this all depends on the radius of the effect...but still.

..and if the other team is running Kritz, it's basically a mass team uber.

Either way, I wouldn't complain if all leagues ban every single item in this update.

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Kermit

Points: 2,823, Level: 34

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From what I've heard, most of the classes have received decent sidegrades excluding the scout and heavy.
Nobody wants to see a heavy constantly being played (see GRU), which is why it was never released from TF2 Beta, so I could see that being banned. The scout weapons seem OP to a certain extent, but I haven't been playing TF2 to test it.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

I also have the Vita-Saw, and I do have to say I think it will seriously come in handy. (Especially with the Kritzkrieg, as was mentioned).

I'll keep using it consistently in PUGs for a while and see what happens.

I think the Black Box should definitely be allowed, as should the Degreaser. Still undecided on the Sydney Sleeper, and I've not got or been hit by the Powerjack but it's gotta have some downside like swing speed...