brainpower4

Points: 3,012, Level: 35

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The taunt healing ramps almost exactly the same as the regular medigun, so it only heals at 75HP per second if the player hasn't taken damage in the last 10 seconds. The taunt is almost exactly the same as being able to target every player on your team with the medigun at the same time in terms of who it can target (can't go through walls, unless they are close to the corner) and how much they are healed.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

shadow... a crossbow? rly... wtf is this....
vita saw... for the non aggressive meds who tend to lose ubers.
I mean sure its nice to retain some of your previous uber, but at most its only going to save you 7.6 seconds of uber building(does it move over from kritz to uber? i.e. dropping a kritz with vita then switching to uber?). In my opinion, its fairly balanced i dont expect a whole lot usage except situationally.

Drayhok

Points: 1,047, Level: 18

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Unfortunately, nope.

Also: Boston Basher can be used to go up the dropdown between mid and 4th in Granary. A+ usage.

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

can I see a vid or something of this... this sounds awesome n.n

Drayhok

Points: 1,047, Level: 18

Activity: 0%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMFMpGcVdkI

Apologies for:
- Being slowish at lining it up (at least I didn't miss the hole!)
- Windows Movie Maker mutilating my amazing HD quality
- Steam friend launching a game a lot for whatever reason

Better method:
- Have a Medic soften your ascent

Abawmb

Points: 592, Level: 11

Activity: 8.3%

Damn that is insane. (Boston Basher = Win in my books)

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Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

Drayhok I think part of what I was getting at is that maybe we don't want Medics to have an additional +1 regen/s...

btw, I play Medic.

Lutraphobia

Points: 2,314, Level: 31

Activity: 25.0%

Assume for a second that the GRU and Steak become legal in comp play. Does cookie cutter now change with heavies able to reach mid with the scouts?

Could you realistically drop a scout for the turbo heavy. You get the same number of players to mid early you're also likely to have them arrive with higher total health. Full health for the demoman, mini buff for the one scout (assuming perfect rollout/ heals) and the heavy around 200 health depending on map size and how much attention he got from the med. You'll also have a greater potential DPS with a heavy in play. However at mid you'll be easier to out manoeuvre and your heavy is insanely vulnerable to the enemy scouts if they expect him to be there, he's also less able to dodge spam from the enemy demo. I'm thinking that except as a surprise play taking two scouts to mid is almost always going to beat rolling with a heavy. That's even before we get beyond mid where on some maps the loss of a second scout post mid can be crippling (I'm looking at you badlands!)

With a soldier dropping to play the turbo heavy I'm thinking we have a whole new ball game. Potentially against a team running the current cookie cutter you can gain a 4v3 advantage at mid which, depending on how well you initially position and then defend the heavy, could cripple an enemy team. Sure you'll be a little weaker after mid for not having the second solly but if you've killed the enemy demo at mid you're not going to be too worried. I'm slightly worried that on some maps (not all of them, turbo heavy didn't work too well on coldfront) both teams will have to rush a heavy to stop the other team gaining an advantage at mid.

cco

Points: 2,154, Level: 29

Activity: 8.3%

Valve just alleviated Mexican Standoff

Also, on the subject of TURBO HEAVY does anybody see a possible Rock-Paper- Scissors mid fight working. Assuming that teams don't drop Soldiers for Turbo Heavies (that's too hard for me to predict) we could get something like this:
Scout and Heavy beats 2 Scouts.
Scout and Sniper/Heavy and Sniper beats Scout and Heavy
2 Scouts beat Scout and Sniper
2 Scouts beat Sniper and Heavy? I feel like 2 good scouts could tagteam the heavy, but the sniper gets to line up a shot with the demoman the entire time.

Let's not forget that on some maps (Badlands comes to mind) Turbo Heavy becomes near useless after using his Turbo Charge and fighting at mid. Besides standing by the Medic, the Heavy will be a lot of dead weight at spire, whereas a Scout/Sniper could be watching flanks, pressuring enemy scouts, countersniping. We can't forget that Scout moves with TURBO SPEED all the time.

Also with the rise of Heavies, will more Scouts start getting their FAN on, falling into the roll of a more agile Pyro(Knocking people off edges etc.) If the Turbo Heavy stays, which I honestly hope for, we can just limit Heavies to 1 per team. Then the Scout is going to become less of a main battle class, and even more of a flanking, harassing class.

Just my 2 Penny's

Schizoid

Points: 1,826, Level: 26

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They need to make the alt-fire of steak not drop a sandvich, not having the the ability to quick heal would be a fair trade off in my opinion.

2thumbs

Points: 3,805, Level: 41

Activity: 5.9%

Since when was the scout's mobility an issue? Too many variables imo. Also, that's a LOT of self damage to a a low health class!

cco

Points: 2,154, Level: 29

Activity: 8.3%

Well, it doesn't seem too hard to have your medic sit there and heal the scout while he climbs.

brainpower4

Points: 3,012, Level: 35

Activity: 0%

I don't find the turbo heavy as intimidating as a sasha+steak+fists of steel heavy swapped in for a soldier. He gets to mid about the same time as the soldiers, can completely shut down any bombing runs, can heal the medic, and most importantly can just stand on the point and force the other team to either spam him down constest the point and be extremely vulnerable. I really doubt anyone is going to try to kill a heavy with melee right in the middle of a midfight, and just ignoring him means giving up the point. Even if he doesn't do any damage at all, he still soaks up so many hits that the enemy can't really deal damage to the rest of the team.

Even if no one died before he gets there, which is pretty unusual, it takes 3 rockets per soldier+3 pipes from the demo+ 2 pretty good shots from the scouts to kill a FoS heavy with a decent buff/a dropped sanvich. That's a TON of damage not going to the rest of the team. Of course if they do choose to ignore him, the heavy just switches to his minigun, hops up on the crate and blasts down the demo and pocket.

Drayhok

Points: 1,047, Level: 18

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Welp...

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

Activity: 8.3%

Nice read but if you replace one scout with a turbo heavy and have to heal the demo and 2 soldiers that is too much healing for the medic. I kind of agree about dropping soldier but this will not be effective against smart team that will focus fire that heavy then your man down.

brainpower4

Points: 3,012, Level: 35

Activity: 0%

Well the steak can still be thrown, so the medic only needs to keep the heavy around 150 HP and give him any overheals leftover after he picnics back to 300. Honestly, if the heavy is at mid with the scouts and demo, its pretty tough to focus down he heavy if his team helps protect him. If the scouts aren't trying to take down the demo he'll either set up a strong sticky trap on the house door, or spam down the opposing demo.

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

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If the heavy is able to reach to mid with the scouts and scouts get there fast as a demo it will be interesting fight before the combo and roamer arrive.

Drayhok

Points: 1,047, Level: 18

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See: My last post. Valve changed the steak so it doesn't stack with the GRU.

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

Activity: 8.3%

I know. We were just assuming

I am sorry no one replied to your post. Just cause no one replies to it does not mean they did not read it.

rehab

Points: 1,582, Level: 23

Activity: 8.3%

Even though I might not use all of it myself, I love most of the new weps, aside from giving the heavy the ability to play a retarded game of redlight greenlight/dontfocusme focusme. I hope to see people getting out of their comfort zones and trying them, especially the crossbow.

AndyADD

Points: 3,137, Level: 36

Activity: 8.3%

I have been trying the crossbow. I did meat air shot on soldier.

rehab

Points: 1,582, Level: 23

Activity: 8.3%

I've hit about one out of 10 of them so far :( Feels weird to aim a projectile that goes straight in the arc it does after using some of the other weapons.

cco

Points: 2,154, Level: 29

Activity: 8.3%

Out of curiosity, does the crossbow use the same hitboxes as the huntsman? And could the Crossbow be blindfired from Badlands Valley into an opposing house? Valley push might become more effective if this is possible, if the shot connects, there's an instant advantage. If the shot misses, the team who fired the shot has to play defensively at first, but I don't think it's that difficult for a medic to get to the high ground of badlands. And of course he could just take a Heavy or someone under the bridge.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

Don't think it drops enough for that cco. Nowhere near enough to go up from valley and dip over the train... In any case, the damage would be around the same as one pipe or rocket.

Drayhok

Points: 1,047, Level: 18

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There is one angle you can shoot it through, but it only does 50~60 damage.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

Fair enough. ^.^

roces9

Points: 1,431, Level: 22

Activity: 8.3%

Just in case no one else mentioned it (I may have missed it): the new Medic weapons do NOT build Ubercharge. All this talk about healing rates etc is good in the Ivory Tower, but even PUBers that I have played with have seen this huge disadvantage of healing and not building any Ubercharge.

I saw allow it for luls and maybe some creative situational strat, but I know that, as a Medic, I would only use the Amputator taunt heal or the crossbow heal if I knew for a fact that I had a huge Uberadvantage and could spare the time.

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waxpax

Points: 2,304, Level: 31

Activity: 33.3%

Something you missed, roces9, the new weapons also don't buff people, and buffs are very important. Also, despite this, I don't think there's anyone stupid enough to rely on just the new weapons for heals instead of the medigun. The new weapons are good as supplemental healing sources and the +1 is especially useful on mids, esp mids where you take a lot of spam on since it improves survivability so much more. The greater regen is also nice because you don't have to run for health as much, you can just keep pushing and rely on the regen to keep you alive.

The Amputator works basically identically to the medigun in healing dynamics and range but it's an area of effect that seems to extend as a sphere around the medic. With crit heals, you can fully heal a heavy from 1HP to 300HP in the time the taunt ends.

Crossbow does about 35-75 damage range depending on distance. Heals about 75-125 depending on distance, and you get close to the max heal at about the distance of badlands top left to top right. It reloads in about 3 sec, so you lose about 10% of uber when you use it and wait to reload. It's best to basically just use it once and then stay on the medigun. You can't heal someone with your crossbow if you're too close to them, but that only really happens when you're clipping into someone so it's not that big of a concern.

I love the crossbow on granary, it's not as great on badlands where you're more likely to be flanked by scouts and have to defend yourself. It's a lot of fun to use and makes medic a bit more interesting, though. Best use I've found of the healing tuant is healing your team after you've wiped the other team at mid, but even then, it's probably better to use medigun to top everyone off and spread out buffs. The only time I've really used the healing taunt is when I've wanted to test it and laugh about it. I doubt I'd use the Amputator if the +1 didn't exist.

I see no reason to not allow the new medic weapons and I'll actually be a little disappointed if they're banned. I'm still unsure about the vita-saw, though.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

The Medic's new weapons are basically for Medieval Mode: healing groups at close range and individual at long range with a Medieval-themed weapon.

Don't take them too seriously.

brainpower4

Points: 3,012, Level: 35

Activity: 0%

The crossbow is very useful in stalematey situations like granary/coldfront 2nd and last. More often than not, you can't push with just an uber and whole team up, you need to at least get the med or demo really lit so they have to pop early. The crossbow lets your roamer move in and out far from his medic while still having the heals to jump around and get the important kills.