icer18

Points: 706, Level: 14

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I know that some classes are more centered on DM than on positioning or game sense and vice-versa, so taking that into consideration, out of the four cookie cutter classes, what is the hierarchy of class difficulty overall on a competitive level and the hierarchy of class difficulty based solely on game sense?

blitzKlickz

Points: 971, Level: 17

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Soldier is easiest by far. Everybody knows that. Shoot feet, get kill.

Medic is based around gamesense and positioning.

Scout is more about DM and positioning.

Demo is about pressuring the other team out of areas they want to be in. Which comes with staying behind the combo for the most part, and throwing stickies/rollies to keep the other team from pushing in too easily. So Demoman doesn't really have specific skills/abilities.

mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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dude, positioning is practically more important for demo than it is for medic

but yeah soldier is the easiest by far

for me personally, scout is the hardest, but I could see an argument for any of the 3 non-soldier classes to be put in any order

Graham

Points: 87,431, Level: 100

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At the middle/lower levels of the scene, I would say that it really depends on the specific team composition and dynamic. Each of the four classes can be the most difficult to play, depending on how the team as a whole plays together (and reacts to particular situations).

At the top levels of the scene, where teams are more balanced with talent and experience in all of the roles, I think that each of the classes provides different challenges for the player. As you said yourself, "some classes are more centered on DM than on positioning or game sense and vice-versa". The development of the game for each of these areas of expertise is similarly advanced at the upper levels of play (and each and every class has some particular area of potential expertise in this regard).

Zigzter

Points: 2,563, Level: 32

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Anyone who says one class is easier than the other is a trolling twat. (Or joking.)

I mean really, if you want to be a douche about it, you could say:
Scout: Derp spam spacebar m1+w into people not looking at you.
Soldier: Derp shoot ground.
Demo: Derp left click right click.
Medic: Derp run around holding M1, press M2 occasionally.

If you want to be realistic about it...basically what Graham said.

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internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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Every class is as difficult as your opponents make it.

(It's the Medic. The answer to your silly question is the Medic.)

Adam

Points: 1,717, Level: 25

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Isn't scout more about raw dm compared to the other classes?

JaySkye

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lolno

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mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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in that regard, demo is just as hard if the enemy team is halfway competent

Gindil

Points: 1, Level: 1

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I'd say it's going to be this right here:

Medic

Demoman

Scout

Soldier

I'd love to see Pyros taken more seriously, but they don't have a good enough speed in some games and it may be best to just go with a scout duo.

general_norris

Points: 8,973, Level: 65

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Man, what an amount of garbage.

I don't think it's possible to measure the "difficulty" of playing a class since it really depends on who you are playing against and how good they are.

The easiest class to start playing is Soldier since he doesn't have any huge weakness, only a lot of small ones, making the skill curve easy to understand.

The rest have bigger weaknesses and are not as well rounded and diverge more from the most common FPS gameplay.

Cadsmar

Points: 321, Level: 6

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the hardest is probably demoman, because of the lack of hitscan weapons and the arc of ALL of his projectiles. But the good thing of it is that he does tons of damage.

Second most difficult is probably scout though.

Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

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Soldier might be the easiest to pick up and learn, but I believe it has one of the highest skill caps in the game. If you want to push it to the limit, look at what can be done on jump maps. The Soldier is one of the most maneuverable, powerful classes in the game; he brings projectiles and hit-scan to combat, meaning you have to acquire some ability with both types of weapons, and excellent soldier footwork and positioning (micro and macro, respectively) can't be understated.

Graham's answer is solid gold, but if I'm not getting off topic, I'd also like to say that certain people seem to have more natural talent with either projectiles or hit-scan. For example, I have always excelled at projectile-based classes in TF2 and other FPS games (I tend to suck at games without projectile weapons). While I can play hit-scan well, it's not my strong suit; I'm more comfortable with pipes and rockets than the scattergun and a shotgun.

mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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at least everyone can agree that heavy is by far the easiest class

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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Yeah I can identify with what Free is saying too. I'm definitely a projectile player in quake, tf2 etc. It's really embarassing when you lose a lightning gun fight to somebody you could've like..triple-airshotted instead.

In tf2 it's even more pronounced because the hitboxes/netcode etc are really bad.

Basically those who can, aim...those who can't, play medic. :)

Lutraphobia

Points: 2,314, Level: 31

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I have decent movement and game sense but shockingly poor hitscan aim. As such for me medic is the easiest class as it has no hitscan aim to worry about and my personal strengths are arguably the most important elements of successful medicing. That's not to say that it's not hard or that other people wouldn't find it harder than other cookie cutter classes. You're fragile, everyone's favourite punch bag and one mistake can cost your team a round, one missed shot from another class is rarely such a big deal.

Soldier is easier than the other fragging classes by a mile. Shoot feet, get kill. Simple. Sure there's still a high skill cap but basic jumps are easy to learn and at low levels of play, that and good prediction are all you need. Also if you're having an off day as a solly it's normally acceptable for you to offclass which can act as a crutch and lower the pressure on you making it easier to perform.

It's the fact that Scouts and Soldiers are under less pressure than demomen and medics that is the primary reason I rate demoman the hardest class to play. While playing demoman you draw a lot of enemy attention and your weaponry is not great for self defence. Further you have less flexibility in your movement options than the other classes. Sticky jumping may allow you to travel further and faster than soldiers but it also costs more health and is harder to set up quickly in a combat situation. My decision may also have something to do with my supernatural ability to miss pipes even in situations where you'd think it was impossible not to hit *something!*

Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

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Not contesting that Demo might be the hardest to play, but Soldier is NOT that simple. Roaming Soldiers are your play-makers and pocket Soldiers are (sometimes the sole) responsible party for making sure the Medic lives long enough to get off an Uber. I can tell you from experience that Soldiers are under tremendous pressure -- again, not, perhaps, what the Demo experiences, but let's not underestimate it either.

Drayhok

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They might be important / useful (that why there's two), but they're not all that hard to play.

mustardoverlord

Points: 3,784, Level: 40

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it depends on the situation and map as well- soldier on a last push on granary is like 10 times easier than soldier at mid on badlands

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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You can't go and say Soldier is easy in general when he has both projectiles and hitscan, and we're discussing how some people are polarized one way or the other...

It's a really consistent class most of the time so it seems powerful/easy, but I think a lot of Soldier players just practice more and try harder in general because they have big shoes to fill

mrslin

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when in doubt it's medic>demo>scout>soldier :)

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Free

Points: 4,384, Level: 44

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Yeah, that's a good point. Soldier isn't hard to pick up and play, but it is hard to master, especially on certain maps. Also, certain kinds of players play different kinds of Soldiers. For example, my jumps are my weak point, so I tend to do much worse on vertical/jump points than I do in open combat.

mrslin

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yeah but you have to factor that into it. you can't say "soldier is harder in xyz situations but easy when there's a scout a your feet". it's almost as silly as saying "Well i'm really good at demoman when I have all my stickies out, but if I don't have any traps set up I suck"

ranking by skill its definitely medic>demo>scout>soldier

if you're talking about what the OP is talking about which is purely gamesense, then it's tough to say because it depends on what skill level you're at. when you just start tf2 i'd say it's soldier>demo>scout>medic because the medic can just follow people around, and for soldier it can be tough to learn the flow of the game. demoman too for knowing where to set up traps. but higher level ranking gamesense i guess it would be medic>soldier>demo>scout because everyone has it figured out by then and the medic is doing a lot of playcalling, followed by playcalling by the pocket. demo reacts off the combo, and scouts as well except for with the scout's speed he can make up for mistakes while the demo needs that time to set up.

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rehab

Points: 1,582, Level: 23

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Ah helllll nah.

Not every medic is so afraid of getting whomped that they won't train up aiming skills enough to dabble in other classes in 6v6. And god forbid somebody should prefer overall to play medic because they find saving lives more gratifying than taking it, right?

And don't get me started on needles. You think y'all niggas got hitscan? Bitch I pre-scan. I put hitboxes where ya going before you can say one-hundred-twenty-five-ta-zero.

Get a doctorate. Have a real conversation.

(jk, @thread yeah medic's pretty much the easiest to control but there's no physical barrier that should prevent anybody from playing any class they really want to, though I wouldn't exactly say it doesn't matter at all I wouldn't recommend making mechanical difficulty the deciding factor in your class choice, and certainly wouldn't call it big enough to make a dickwaving contest about it)

Healbot

Points: 1,318, Level: 21

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Having played pretty much every season as a different class, Scout is easily the hardest to make a huge impact with. It's easy to destroy as Soldier and Demo but to legitimately earn your kills as Scout is fairly difficult. Demo is probably the easiest. Pipes are the easiest projectiles to direct with and stickies are way too good.

Swift

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I'm not so sure about that. Imo it's more difficult to get consistent directs with a pipe than it is with a rocket. Not only does it depend on your enemy's movement and your accuracy, you always have to put into account your movement as well (ei. strafe direction). Rockets, no matter which direction you strafe, will always go straight and always come out of the right side.

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Cadsmar

Points: 321, Level: 6

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Try setting your interp to .01 and interp ratio to .001

DO this via console:

cl_interp .01
cl_interp_ratio .001

general_norris

Points: 8,973, Level: 65

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I agree. Also, missing with the Demoman is much worse than missing with the Soldier. Less health, self-damage, no solid backup weapon. Missing with a pipe also risks the enemy from getting too close, a death sentence for a Demoman.

Also, missed rockets can at least get you some splash damage while pipes simply won't.

internetexplorer_

Points: 1,812, Level: 26

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as a medic player I can confirm that this is not true!

general_norris

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Haha, yeah. I'm talking in terms of killing the enemy before he gets another meatshot on you =P