Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

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GO START UR FRIGGIN ARGUMENTS AND STOP OFF TOPICING

Cigs

Points: 1,203, Level: 20

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Is baking pies a sport? Is chess a sport? Is everything in the Guinness Book a sport? POGS? Marbles?

Competition is only half of the equation. The Team Fortress 2 video game for PC is in fact a game. Nothing wrong with that. "Esport" is a goofy term that almost comes across as self-deprecating to me.

chipbuster

Points: 2,622, Level: 33

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Ohai cigs, I think I just lobbied with you. I'm bad :3

At any rate, I think tf2 is a game. But then again, so is chess. And chess tournaments are some pretty crazy stuff.

While we're at it, can this be moved to offtopic or general? I don't feel like it belongs in the gameplay section :P

Cigs

Points: 1,203, Level: 20

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Yeah, I lobby a lot. I think I've played with most of the posters here at one point or another on there. And yeah, this topic could really even be deleted imo. It's a silly debate in semantics at best.

mrslin

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agreed it's only a game or a competition but not a sport

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RoboticRefrigeration

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Depends on how you define sport. There isnt a concrete definition, so no one can say "yes it is" or "no it isnt" and be universally right.

Alis1337

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It's an E-Sport.

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defiance

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I guess if you get paid for it, it could be a sport. Otherwise it is kinda just a hobby.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

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This is right. If there ever is a "correct" definition, then you could argue this. Otherwise you're just saying your definition is better than someone else's.

Jeeka

Points: 889, Level: 16

Activity: 33.3%

so what you're trying to say that intermural sports or school sports aren't actual sports because you don't get paid, they're just hobbies? why can't they be both?

honestly, its just a game, just play it - if you think its a sport, good for you, if you think its a game/hobby, all the better

Retro

Points: 464, Level: 9

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport

"3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime."

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SealClubber

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No tf2 is a video game. Giving it the name sport implies that people that play it are athletes. It's not the case in tf2.

I know, in the other thread you guys call a sport "athletics" trying to misdirect the fact that sports involve athleticism. Just look at dictionary.com's first definition.... :An athletic activity....ectect. I shouldn't need to be telling you that a sport involves athletics, it's not an opinion, it's common sense. If you think otherwise you desperately need to pick up a sport.

Sport isn't defined by competition, there are all kinds recreational non competitive sports. Anything can be competitive, eating, sleeping, petting dogs, taking large craps on the toilet... Just because it can be competitive it doesn't make it a sport. TF2 is a very competitive game, there's no questioning that. But it is not and should not be considered a sport.

defiance

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I guess I meant like a sport, how the NFL is. So professional sports.

shdw.puppet

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ok then, by your argument sealclubber, is skeet a sport? How about pool? Skeet is in the olympics, but it is not athletic. Not to detract from athletics, I ran track and played soccer in my day, but there is a lot of the same intensity in video games. So, I dont think they are a sport by classical definition, but in a world where everything is getting redefined, I think it is ok to change definitions.

forsaken

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sport: an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Is tf2 a sport, sure it is, plenty of athletes don't posses the skills to play tf2 on the public level let alone the competitive level, and though it isn't and athletic sport, athleticism can be loosely defined, and isn't an essential characteristic in defining a sport. Chess is a sport in the sense that not only is based in competition and skill, but it comes with a degree of mental athleticism, the same goes for tf2, not only is skill, intellect, and the necessary levels of competition there, but more remedial physical attributes like hand-eye coordination, and muscle memory.

By defining sports as being purely athletic you put down the very essence of competition and sport. Olympics aren't all about speed and strength, however it is the basis for ancient olympics as-well as the more widely known and used definition of a sport, I agree by standards that tf2 and video games aren't a sport, but in my opinion, viewing sports as purely physical takes us back in time to era's where physical prowess was and meant everything, wars and empires were built on the principles of such sports, "the hoplite race", "chariot racing" all of these things were considered sport because they were valued. Also the principle of olympic sport was to honor the human body, so most athletes competed naked, but essentially my argument is sports like tf2, games like tf2, are growing in fame as sports because it challenges other parts of the human body, like the mind.

yck

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It's the same stuff like football, volleyball, basketball and others - unless competitive, it's just a game, purpose of which is having fun, and on aforementioned level it may be called sport (quite popular term eSport might be more appropriate here). Still, next step after assuming it is a sport is organizing olympics, establishing formal federations, et caetera. I'm definitely against such actions.

SealClubber

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I've never skeeted before... so I can't say. Pool? No. Unless it's a swimming pool.

SealClubber

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Did I miss the part that says video games?


Chess is a board game. Tf2 is a video game. As far as muscle memory goes, playing a musical instrument is far more skillful than playing tf2. Competitive game? yes. Sport no.

Are you saying sports don't challenge the mind on the same, but also higher level than tf2?

tehn

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Just have fun with it, I learned that the long and painful way.

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nana

Points: 254, Level: 5

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lol, "video games are sports."

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

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skeet is competitive shooting of clay pigeons, it is a lot of fun, but I suck ass at aiming irl (wait, in game too) it is considered a sport. And how about racing, like with real cars, the difference between real racing and trackmania is small, and basically boils down to interface (gamers are using periferals and real racers are using a car). Both take skill. Soccer takes skill, but so does TF2, Track takes... wait, that takes no skill at all, just the ability to run fast. And many sports do not take a ton of mental prowess, certainly not on the level of TF2.

How about you define, straight up, with clear, unambiguous writing, what, exactly, a sport is.

SealClubber

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Any activity that improves your physical and mental health.

RoboticRefrigeration

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Palates?

SPORT

Push-ups?

SPORT

Reading and walking at the same time?

SPORT




Now, as I've said twice, Im all for using a personal definition, but yours is almost the exact same as "Exercise" or "Athletics". If I jogged in place while playing in TF2, would that suddenly make it a sport? If someone plays baseball against a pitching machine, are they participating in a sport, or are they practicing baseball? Nowhere in your definition does it say a "sport" has to be competitive, which is really fucking strange considering the general consensus seems to be that a sport involves competition.

And furthermore, how do you define improving physical health? Do you define it in the long term or the short term? How do you justify either choice? Weight lifters nearly kill themselves building muscle mass. Is that an improvement of physical health? BMX racers are incredibly fit but incredibly prone to accidents. I think I can safely say that no professional BMX rider has ever not broken a bone. That doesn't sound like much of a physical improvement to be honest, considering the after effects of breaking a bone stick with you for the rest of your life.

Im not even going to go into how one would define mental improvement, because there is no way anyone can objectify that.

You can have your definition, but dont say its right. There is no right definition.

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

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sit ups?

RoboticRefrigeration

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oh, and these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6jYF6q1bmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zImvMwDZro

khorma

Points: 2,008, Level: 28

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i was exactly thinking of this when starting to read this thread thanks for posting

SealClubber

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Of course that definition is oversimplified. Common sense just isn't an "in" thing anymore I guess.

RoboticRefrigeration

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You didnt follow the criterion for the definition, Im not to blame.

SealClubber

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It's not a good criterion in the first place, it doesn't matter what I would write because you would nitpick random little bits. I tried to come up with something very simple, and you come with ... laughable examples. I'm not blaming you either... An argument calling a video game a sport...

RoboticRefrigeration

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Not a good criterion? It said "exact" and you gave vague and incomplete.

And yeah, I was being tongue-in-cheek with my examples, but that doesnt disprove any of my points.

It all culminates to the fact that you cant define sport and be correct.

A videogame is a sport if I define sport as "A competitive, skill based activity" just as it isnt a sport if you define it as "athletic competition" or something.