shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

hmm, maybe it is just because I seem to be able to dodge huntsman and have very, very bad experiences with the sandman... even recently.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

Shadow it just seems that you don't have enough experience as scout. Yeah, it sucks for medics, but it sucks for scouts as well. I'd rather have 15 hp (25 with buffs) more hp than the occasional ability to try to limit their medic.

shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

I do not have experience with the sandman because the only one I have ever found I crafted without ever using it. Do whatever, I dont really think it will make that big of a difference because so many scouts rely on double jump anyway.

waxpax

Points: 2,304, Level: 31

Activity: 33.3%

One of my scouts crafted his bonk (a month or two ago to craft a hat -.-), he still hasn't found a replacement. The drop system might be better and there might be a seemingly easy way to obtain Crit-a-Cola, but, if you can't obtain the right ingredients, you're just out of luck and the drop system is still random and random does weird things. I think with Crit-a-Cola at least, we should give more time than the five weeks to the start of the season to allow it so more people have a chance of getting it and trying it out in scrims.

Grimm

Points: 1,541, Level: 23

Activity: 78.8%

It's not that it's overpowered. It's that nobody likes it. And that's not gonna change until the stun is removed.

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hitscan prefire

oblivion

Points: 1,001, Level: 18

Activity: 33.3%

you guys have to remember that weapons that should be in use are the ones that are balanced and aren't overpowered or give unfair advantages.
My take on this:

Crit-a-cola: get minicrits and take more damage, thats pretty equal, sure you can get flanked but if you are watching your flank there is nothing to worry about, they cant pistol you from afar because it takes this slot. its a pretty equal trade. @ what sigma mentioned, it really shouldnt make that much of a difference, im not sure about esea but gunboats are allowed but idk if both teams say ok. Let the crit-a-cola play

Paintrain: umm caps points 2x faster and u take more bullet damage, over the equilizer im not sure this will even be used often so why not? this would help koth maps too

home wrecker: takes our buildings and sappers. you would have to uber the pyro to get to their sentry and he will be knocked into the air a lot probably so he wont even touch the sentry; its other use requires and engineer on your team, but who is going to run a pyro and engineer, especially a pyro for that reason. doesnt do anything bad so let that in too.

MjrNuT

Points: 1,634, Level: 24

Activity: 0%

I concur almost entirely. The almost would be that w/o crit-ter-cola you can still be Meatshat. (make up that word?)

indeed.


Take the damn scoot out first!! Otherwise, do what the Pachyderms do!!

__________________
MjrNuT
Flames and Ash Gaming

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

Shadow, you might want to look up what the sandman does exactly xD
Double jump with the sandman has been around for a looong time now.

density

Points: 1,250, Level: 20

Activity: 33.3%

So yes, Minicrits can one shot a light class.
And it would be kind of unfair since the Scattergun has the ability to Critical 1 Shot a Medic, and even a Demo I believe, if anyone is even slightly unaware they lose a key part of their team for 20 seconds.

Kuiper

Points: 5,165, Level: 49

Activity: 0%

When switching to the Bonk or Crit-a-Cola, the scout opens the can and it makes a distinctive "pop" noise. The scout is also vulnerable (completely immobile) during the drink animation. If the scout is anywhere near the combo, they should be able to hear him pop the drink, and may be able to get the jump on him during his drink animation. It's much like a cloaked spy decloaking behind a team and backstabbing the medic: if he does it too close, the team has an audio cue as to his presence, and can respond accordingly.

Of course, a scout can work around the "opening can sound" issue by selecting his Crit-a-Cola before running in, but running toward the enemy without a weapon in hand is a very risky move indeed and one that is likely to leave you dead if you come face to face with an enemy scout.

MileHighMilitia

Points: 1,544, Level: 23

Activity: 0%

Tbh, the only reason that weapons should be banned is because not everybody has them. Everyone has more than enough chance to get each item by start of season. Crit-a-cola is well balanced, and the paintrain and homewrecker are both terribly inconsequential. Allow all community weapons.

kyzzak

Points: 398, Level: 7

Activity: 3.0%

First off, thanks to XPL for this new league; hope it works out fun for all parties involved.

2nd, thanks to Hawkeye for allowing ALL items for pre-season.
I honestly think that will allow for a more dynamic and engaging TF2 gameplay. There are elements of this now such as a Demo switching between sword/shield and stickies. Keeps the other team on their feet, and you get the occasional epic decapitation (a la SolidSnake).

Someone said that the better scout pair wins the match, and you can debate that if you want. But with all the different choices and play-styles for scout now, SG, FaN, Bonk, CaC, pistol, Sandman; I honestly believe it will bring more diversity and dynamic game-play to TF2.

TL;DR. Moar Unlocks = Moar Dynamic TF2

purGe

Points: 158, Level: 3

Activity: 12.1%

Paintrain could have a lot of new strategies based off it.

Home Wrecker fails.

I'm not sure about the Cola, it fails like 50% of the time.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

Cola -> ban
Sandman -> All good
paintrain -> all gud
homewrecker -> anti sentry on blands last all good

Cola u run 2 cola scouts with an ubercharge it becomes the team-wiper and the game becomes no fun when the point of competitive tf2 is to run mini crit scouts on uber all the time that can kill more people with an uber charge. maybe sometimes strats @ last pushes change when there is sentries otherwise id be seeing 2 ubered scouts with cola 80% time wiping out teams.

considering each scout can do 6 scatter gun each with 60 damage mini crits(reasonable enough eh?) total damage is: 6*2*60 = 720

now the team's hp without buff:
2 soldiers = 400
demo and med = 325
2 scouts = 250
total = 975 without buffs

now ask any scout who is actually on a team that cant meatshot when ubered. in theory scouts will use the uber to give 140 damage meatshots which will hurt more than the 60 damage reasonably low mid range damage mini crit i gave the calculator.

in actual game play the damage output will vary. however its a guarantee, a well coordinated push will rape any team without an uber. even if the soldier juggles that scout he will still do a 70+ damage on the enemy med from mid air...

lets say that both teams have uber, 2 cola scouts will dish out enough damage to make the other team share uber... plus you have 2 fully healed soldier and a demo behind you... so did anyone mention Team Wiper?

hablah

Points: 539, Level: 10

Activity: 9.1%

I didnt have the ingredients when i found out i could craft it. 3 days later i had a kritz and an extra bonk. its not hard if you play this game.

uninformed people shouldn't speak, especially on things they admittedly have no idea about.

wow mr doom and gloom, you sir are creating a shit storm out of nothing. yes it can hurt, but so can a soldier demo combo sharing uber, or 2 soldiers, or pretty much any 2. would it be the end of the world if people stopped pushing with uber soldiers? would it upset your fragile view of how people SHOULD PLAY THIS GAME? omg CHANGE?!?! RUN FOR THE HILLS BILLY!!!!!!

P.S.- a parting thought. QUIT SHITTING ON SCOUT UNLOCKS, we are the only guys with a terrible melee upgrade that was banned and nerfed to oblivion.

P.P.S- FFS people you cant 1 shot demos or meds quit saying they can. and remember, they get 1 shot easier or just as easily as you and you have 5x more people to shoot with mini crits on 1 target.

Edit: unlock all

Jesus

Points: 4,136, Level: 43

Activity: 5.9%

Bikini, your idea of the Crit-a-cola is ridiculous, you fail to understand how that weapon is not over powered in any way. The scout can be one shot by any class (medic not included.) I've played around with the unlock and aside from having a terrible model (it should be a glass Coke style bottle) there is nothing, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with it in any way, shape or form.

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shdw.puppet

Points: 3,599, Level: 39

Activity: 66.7%

Hi, I don't know you, but I am not quite sure where you get off coming to a civilized discussion and being snarky and just plain rude. My knowledge of the scout is admittedly a little outdated, I dont and never have played the class. I apologize for being wrong on your internet. Fish was a bit more constructive in his pointing out my wrongness.

I dont think anyone is saying that we should "head for the hills" because there are new unlocks. We are saying that they should be looked at, analyzed and maybe put off a season (or at least until the end of the season) before being put in. I for one would not mind leaving the crit-a-cola in, I do however think it should be limited to one per team.

As for one shotting meds (not demos who are usually 260 anyway).... um, for all intensive purposes yea you can. Any time I am in a combat situation, I am not at 150, even if I dodge every rocket and maneuver around every sticky, I will still have taken at least 10 damage at mid, yard, 2nd, pushing last, holding yard, holding second, holding last etc. At any of those major, game changing times, could a scout swoop in and meatshot me. Now, granted, that is not very likely, but say I am a bit weaker (it happens), the scout in question essentially has 1.35 times the space in which he can one shot me.

Im not saying ban it, im just saying both scouts should not be allowed to run it.

I embrace change, I love the medic unlocks (yes, they were change once too) and really love playing new maps (gran and blands get boring fast). It is my opinion that the crit-a-cola, if given to both scouts, can be OP. I think it is something worth looking at constructively. Obviously you, as a scout, are going to have a different opinion of the unlocks than me, a medic.

P.S.- Just because your class got shat on by valve in their updates does not give your class a blind eye in future updates.

P.P.S.- And talk about getting shit on, does the medic not get any love with the community unlocks? we havent gotten anything new since the medic update, which was the first major update (waaaaaay back with goldrush). I think medics should start acting more like scouts and cry on every unlock related thread that they dont get new toys to play with and that they are getting shat on by the unlocks.

P.P.P.S.- No hate bro just love <3 n.n

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

As of right now, I don't really see a need to limit the crit-a-cola to one scout. That way it is setup, your basically forcing the scout to suicide in for all intents and purposes. and stopping to drink it in combat is suicide to begin with if anything see you.

It's a solid risk reward, High risk to send a scout that can get one shooted by any class, to try to get a solid pick, or hold off. Two scouts using the Crit-a-cola in rapid succession seems like an awfully high risk I don't see team taking a chance unless unless they are already up 3-4 rounds anyways.

It seems people are looking at the maximum damage output without much thinking to the risks involved with doing it which are rather high.

Cigs

Points: 1,203, Level: 20

Activity: 6.1%

Crit-a-Cola is very situational and definitely not OPed. The best I can do with it is suicide into the combo to force uber. I'm going to go ahead and coin the term "SODA POPPED" for this tactic.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

The only problem I can see happening with this is a lot of needless crying.

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

hablah just owned all of you

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

keep the sandman banned, the rest shouldn't even be considered, unless it is because nobody is getting the drop

Crit-a-Cola isn't that amazing. Simple focus fire will destroy it, it certainly isn't game changing at all. Maybe you guys have totally forgotten how a scout plays, last time i checked there aren't going to be any scouts sniping people from bats or something. The only way a scout can be useful is getting up close, what also hurts up close? Rockets. What hurts even more up close when you are taking mini-crits, rockets. I think it is a good trade off, you get mini crits, but people get mini crits on you.

As for the "oh god oh god scouts are going to be ubered." Ever heard of a counter uber? IDK about you bikini, but I'm pretty sure if the other team has an uber, and your team doesn't, you don't play close. So it wouldn't really matter, because if a medic ubered a scout with mini crits your action would be simple. A) Counter Uber. B) You are already backed off a little, wait for the scout to get out of medigun range and then get free mini crits on an alone scout.

As far as both scouts running it, I could only see an advantage with this in a scout v scout area. If both scouts ran crit-a-cola they would basically always be 1 scout down because they are suiciding. So there is your advantage to take the flanks.

No reason for it to be banned, one of the few unlocks that actually has a good negative side.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

Why should the sandman remained banned, the weapons has changed a LOT since the initial ban and is due for a re-evaluation, so I need to see somethign a bit more tangible in the objection to the weapon.

SealClubber

Points: 2,301, Level: 31

Activity: 0%

I crafted all of mine already, so it has to stay banned...

It's hard to keep track of the changes? What are the current attributes?

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

Off the TF2 Wiki at tf2wiki.net

Grimm

Points: 1,541, Level: 23

Activity: 78.8%

It's not that the Sandman is overpowered in any sense, though it used to be (when it negated Ubers). It's just annoying as hell and brings down the quality of the game. So if you're only banning overpowered weapons, and you don't want to make an exception, unban the Sandman. But I think most people would prefer not to play with it.

__________________
hitscan prefire

waxpax

Points: 2,304, Level: 31

Activity: 33.3%

Some people just aren't that lucky; my scout plays quite often, he just hasn't gotten a bonk drop yet. I crafted my spare bonks and kk's before the change to crafting and have hit the cap on drops every week since then and still haven't gotten a kk or bonk. The drop system is a matter of luck when getting specific items, all you can do to improve the probability of getting a specific item is increase the time line to allow for more drops, which is all I think we should consider.

xShishy-

Points: 1,011, Level: 18

Activity: 5.9%

Uber crit-a-cola scout is so fun when you are either the scout or the medic :D.

Hawkeye

Points: 5,054, Level: 48

Activity: 50.0%

In a general sense, the issue I have with that mentality is we are banning things simply because a percentage of the population dislikes it, not that it is game breaking, or anything else. The major complaint everyone had was the bonk of an uber, but that is no longer the case.

The bans on the other weapons was about not everyone having them, that is the main complaint, which does not apply to the Sandman, with all the changes to the sandman all the original arguements are nearly moot, the purpose here is to drop the sandman back in for Preseason and see what the issues really are in reality after all the changes. If it is still a game breaking issue for 6v6 I want to be able to give Valve something tangible, right now from a glance it appears more bias of players then a hard fact, so hopefully preseason gives us something tangible or changes some minds.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

can u actually read what i have written? i SAID UBERED SCOUT WITH CRIT A COLA

fyi towards the people who thinks a double uber solly or demo can do more damage output.
Scouts can also do that same damage output just that they have 125 hp while every other class have more.

Soldier: 4 rockets 2 shotgun point blank range 600 damage mid range 400 damage(80 dmg rockets with 40 damage shotgun)
U can actually dodge rockets and airstrafe if u get juggled

Demoman: indirect meant for group splash damage
of course his damage output will be ridiculously high however if the enemies is extremely spread around the demoman might not do as much damage as desired. Same thing as soldier, you can dodge projectiles.

Scout: 6 scatter gun shots
600 damage if all point blank and medium range 360 damage(60 damage scattergun shots im being more than reasonable here)

Now go ask any decent medics: when you get picked was it the scattergun who killed you or the rocket which you failed to ride or sidestep.

the point of soldiers and demos is that they can splash damage enemies enough so that the scouts can do work and finished them up or scouts lit everyone up in the group and soldiers and demo jump in and go for the kill.

Now the scout received a damage output advantage over the soldiers and demos with the crit-a-cola. once ubered the scout's heath disadvantage goes away and begins two shotting soldiers and demos with ease and one shotting other scouts.

Scouts = 1 person killing machine
Soldiers + Demos = Splash damage team killer

lets rack up the shots of scattergun shall we?
and lets be reasonable that these two scouts are bad at aiming We got 12 shots guys we make the best of them!
60-60-60 3 shots the demo with mini crits
50-50-50-50 4 shots the roamer
60-60-60 3 shots one of the scout
60-65 2 shots the other scout

you are left with the combo and the medic... taking the situation another step... can two scouts without ammo reload and run away then double flank this combo and manage to kill either that soldier while only both have little buff after the uber?

seriously like I will run 3 scouts in order to abuse the uber+ critacola effects