brainpower4

Points: 3,012, Level: 35

Activity: 0%

Just FYI, a absolutely point blank shot from the scatter gun with crit-a-cola leaves the med with around 5 HP. So the fan does get that extra 1 hit ability. On the other hand, if your team can't clean up a medic with 5 HP, he probably had uber. In that case, there is no reason a scout should be able to land that first shot.

Platinum

Points: 2,027, Level: 28

Activity: 25.0%

listen, ban crit-a-cola until it cannot be used while ubered. That in itself is reason enough to keep it banned. If they fix it so you can't use it while you're ubered, then allow it.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

i'd like to see a med who has health > 145 most of the time when the teams are not stacked. a random scattergun pellet does 3 damage at far range... might be the eventual critacola downfall of the med!
yes medics can totally survive from divebombs unscathed

Hawkeye

Points: 5,566, Level: 51

Activity: 8.3%

In our match we just had an uber buff banner combination which is simply much more lethal all around since the entire team + uber is dealing mini-crits.

It's a valid tactic and I don't see anything gamebreaking about Crit-a-cola at this time, if you have demos to present that DEMONSTRATE that is is overpowered and a game breaker (not change) please post them and I can reconsider at that time.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

Soldier has dealt 600 damage in a single life in order to obtain a buff banner and has to give up a shotgun which any decent soldier can tell you its a vital weapon.

Scout just have to drink the darn thing and have to give up the pistol. where as the pistol is seldom used.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

Scout gives up Bonk, which is a great escape and initiation tool, in exchange for CaC.

For HoN players: It's like Portal Key versus Elder Parasite. Portal key is useful on literally any hero (though it's not always worth the gold), whereas Elder Parasite is considered one of the worst items in the game, and should only be bought on a select few heroes (and even then it's situational).
For non-HoN players that read that analogy, Portal Key is an escape/initiation tool (which cannot be used while being attacked, much like Bonk), whereas Elder Parasite gives you attack and movement speed (aka more damage) in exchange for taking 20% more damage (compare that to CaC's 35% more damage).

improperdancing

Points: 380, Level: 7

Activity: 21.2%

For CaC to be effective, the scout has to get close. However, under the effect of CaC, even one rocket can end the scout's life.

It is not an easy weapon to use, and it has an absolutely huge downside. You're getting a chance to one-shot an enemy for the risk of getting one-shotted by another class yourself. It's really only great for flanking, and even then if you can get that close to a medic you could probably have killed him regardless.

Bikini

Points: 3,930, Level: 41

Activity: 8.3%

Is there a ubercharge in HON for 12 seconds like the duration of the Elder Parasite?

I'm talking about ubered situations if you read up on my wayyy earlier posts

chipbuster

Points: 2,622, Level: 33

Activity: 9.1%

is an ubered CaC scout really worth it though? What if I ubered the demoman instead?

Crit-A-Cola = 6x142 dmg = 852 damage assuming max ramp and perfect aim

Stickies + Pipes = 8x138 dmg + 4x111 dmg = 1548 or a bit short of twice as much as a CaC scout. Obviously the uber demoman is OP and we should ban him :)

Now I realize that you can argue that a scout can run down a medic, but a demoman can too, if he stickyjumps, and the end result is the same (they both move faster than the medic and lose the uber.) The difference is that the scout is effectively working with 120.25 HP after the uber fades (185 Hp of full buff x 65% because of minicrit damage taken) while the demoman is working with 260 HP.

Or what if I ubered a targe demo? He moves twice as fast as a scout and can oneshot the enemy medic. He can then take 260 x 2 or 520 points of explosive damage before dying, while the rest of my team mops up.

The point I'm trying to make here isn't that the ubered CaC scout isn't powerful--he is definitely a force to be reckoned with. The point is that ubering any class makes them somewhat OP for the next 8 seconds. That's kinda the point of the uber: making anyone invulnerable an letting them dish out damage for 9.5 seconds without fear of dying or taking damage is going to make them extremely powerful in an fps.

The point is that the CaC scout isn't a gamebreaking option, as he outruns his medic, he can only land 6 (or maybe 8) shots before the uber runs out, and he's not exactly strong if the uber ends in a bad spot.

Or here's a challenge: find me a demo where a team successfully ubers a CaC scout every time in the 5+ rounds of a match. If the CaC is so gamebreaking, then I shouldn't have a hope of competing with it if I'm on the same level as you are (a.k.a. the team that doesn't run CaC will be wiped/forced to retreat) every time the enemy team ubers. I haven't seen the CaC that often in STV demos or lobbies/pugs, but my gut says that it's not quite that powerful.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

I don't know why some people are getting quite this worked up over Crit-a-Cola. Just go back to the beginning:
-Damage taken and damage dealt are equal. Okay.
-Gain the choice of obtaining the above when you want to. Advantage.
-Lose the pistol (or Bonk!). Disadvantage.

Two things Valve should change:
-The ability to ubercharge CaC Scouts. As rare as it would be, but just in case it came up by accident.
-The ability to pop uber when 'stunned'. For obvious reasons.

As others have said, it is only slightly game-changing, by adding an additional, if anecdotal level to the game, and this is undeniably a good thing.

P.S. I also haven't found it and haven't found a spare Kritzkrieg since Crit-a-Cola was released, and I play well over 6 hours per week.

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

Yes, Shrunken Head, which is considered a core item on almost every "carry" hero (which would be the only type of hero using Elder Parasite in the first place). Plus there are a ton of disables, which can be more powerful than an uber, as the enemies can neither get away, nor attack. Plus Elder Parasite doesn't have a drink time, which is a HUGE drawback on CaC, seeing as the effective time of CaC requires great timing.

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

This thread, board, website has jack-shit to do with HoN. For goodness sake, people, this is taking off-topic to a whole new level.

Sheesh

Fish #641

Points: 2,875, Level: 34

Activity: 0%

No, it's making an analogy where an similar set of items has been tested in a different, but still very comparable setting, so that we can get a better idea of how such pros and cons are useful. We're not debating the items of the other game, we're debating the items in this game by comparing tested knowledge to new things. How is that not obvious?

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

It absolutely wasn't. I don't play HoN, so I didn't have a clue what you were on about or how it related to TF2. Fair enough, I suppose quite a few people on here must play it so it might be helpful to them (although I can't see why just discussing the TF2 items in a TF2 setting isn't sufficient).

Apologies

defiance

Points: 2,864, Level: 34

Activity: 8.3%

I have yet to see CaC used in a useful way, let alone a game breaking way.

Oh, and no way are we going to see a scout/scout/medic combo, bikini.

improperdancing

Points: 380, Level: 7

Activity: 21.2%

Ubering a CaC scout could certainly be effective in certain situations, but in general ubering a scout can be effective in certain situations. All the CaC would do is give a buff banner-esque damage boost.

And if you're going to do that, why not just uber in with a buff banner so your entire team gets a bonus?

Daystar

Points: 930, Level: 17

Activity: 75.0%

Because a Scout will practically always have Crit-a-Cola at the ready whereas the Buff Banner requires 600 damage to fill. Also, a Scout is faster unless the Soldier wants to waste a quarter of his damage-boosted rockets.

mutated

Points: 752, Level: 15

Activity: 0%

having written two articles on a similar subject i like to think i've given this some thought /pompous brat

Crit-a-Cola: at the moment, balanced for competitive play. it's a big gamble. you either get away with one or two-shotting the medic (or whoever you're gunning for) or you get killed by the massive incoming damage. unless further discoveries are made regarding the cola, it's balanced.

Sandman: balanced. another gamble. it allows stuns, which when pulled off in mid fights or other situations where all twelve members are actively fighting can be a near instant-kill, depending on your teammates. however, it can't be used all the time, isn't particularly easy to hit with (although nowhere near impossible, don't misunderstand me), and makes the scout much more vulnerable to rockets and damage in general.

Pain Train: balanced. for the third time, a gamble. if your soldier or demo is capping a point and is not in a fight with a scout or a shotgun-wielding soldier, then there is only the x2 cap speed (not technically x2 but counting as 2 people) advantage. but once you're hit with bullets, you're in much more danger, and if you're hit with bullets outside of actively capping a point, then there is only the 10% more damage disadvantage. it's a toss-up.

Homewrecker: balanced (underpowered). since pyro isn't used often (asides from Gravel Pit, where enemy sappers or buildings are incredibly rare), and it's not at all better than the axtinguisher for general gameplay, it should definitely be allowed.

Shiv: this one is interesting. assuming anyone who actually gets hit by this can find health soon enough, it's roughly the same as the kukri. it is perhaps a bit stronger, but it increases the attack power of a non-cookie-cutter class (albeit the most played off-class) only slightly in certain situations. besides, once a scout finds you you're essentially dead anyway. i would let it in, although the numbers may convince people otherwise.

Others: dalokohs bar is worse than both shotgun and sandvich, so allow.
skullcutter is again, worse than all other replacements (except perhaps the eyelander) so it's fine.
and the only other drop-only weapon, the gunboats, is already being used, to my knowledge.

So no weapons get the axe in my book.